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Topics - ThoughtsOfThelli

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General Q&A / Do Nonmen have princes/princesses?
« on: August 04, 2018, 07:54:17 pm »
This was something I started wondering about when creating wiki articles for Cet'moyol and Linqirû today. I ended up using those titles in the infoboxes anyway, but I wanted to know everyone else's opinions on this matter.
As SmilerLoki and I were discussing in the Quorum, no children of Nonmen kings seem to ever be referred to as "prince" or "princess" (Cû'jara-Cinmoi's parents, Cû'jara-Cinmoi himself before his grandfather's death, Nil'giccas before his father's death, etc.). I'm still doubtful that the absence of these titles definitely means that they don't exist, especially since most of the relevant characters aren't mentioned that often. Opinions?

General Earwa / Mimara's abilities and status as a prophet
« on: June 09, 2018, 01:49:19 pm »
Since my previous thread evolved into a discussion about Mimara, the JE, and her abilities and status as a prophet, I figured it was best to create a brand new thread to continue that particular avenue of discussion.

Right now I don't have anything else to add, but I'll look into a few quotes/passages and see what I can find.

Alright, I don't know if this is a topic that anyone besides myself has any interest in, but here we go. I have discussed these characters before, and have even recently speculated that one of them might have been Conphas' half-sister in one of the reread threads.
The thing is, as it has been brought up many times before, unlike Moënghus, Kellhus was definitely not limited in the choice of worldborn women he could have children with. As Aspect-Emperor of the Three Seas, he could have made virtually any woman he happened to think had the potential for giving birth to viable (if not balanced) half-Dûnyain children into one of his concubines. Yet Esmenet only refers to seventeen concubines, which seems like a small number for someone in Kellhus' position. Especially when you consider all the children these seventeen women gave birth to were (allegedly) stillborn and/or severely deformed. Maybe he thought that the children he managed to have with Esmenet would be enough to help accomplish his Thousandfold Thought.
However, you have to consider that Kellhus only had two children who, in Maithanet's words, "expressed balance", with Thelli being useful in her own way despite her issues, and Inrilatas being completely unsuitable for any of his plans (I'm not counting Kelmomas and Samarmas here, as it appears Kellhus started searching for suitable concubines quite a bit before they were born). Accidents can happen to anyone, and no matter how resilient half-Dûnyain are, he was still in a precarious position if he really thought he needed to have at least a few balanced children around. Serwa, in particular, was even more valuable than a regular balanced half-Dûnyain, given her status as one of the Few.

So, the first point I wanted to bring up here for speculation is: how did Kellhus actually choose these concubines? Was he making a choice based only on "native intellect" (which seems to be a marker of potential Dûnyain-compatible genetics), as Esmenet says? It seems likely that there would be other criteria. I think that Kellhus' best bet here (intellect aside) would be to go for maximum diversity, and not just, say, choose intelligent women from the former Nansur Empire. Seems like that would broaden the chance of at least one of them having genetics compatible with those of Dûnyain. I actually wonder if he did choose at least one from wherever Maithanet was from (supposedly either Nilnamesh or Cingulat), since Moënghus had found a woman capable of bearing a healthy and stable half-Dûnyain child in that region. And how likely is it that at least one of these concubines was of the Few? You'd think Kellhus would also want to maximize his chances of having another child who would grow up to be a future powerful mage. (Yes, I know he needed every Few woman he could to be part of the Great Ordeal later on, but there would be still be women of the Few who had never actually become witches and were too old to be trained at the time of the Swayal Compact.)

Second point of speculation (perhaps verging on crackpot territory): do you think one (or more) of Kellhus' children by his concubines could still be around? Now, Esmenet seems to think that all of the children Kellhus fathered, aside from (six of) hers, were either (apparently?) stillborn or killed shortly after birth due to their deformities. But we all know Kellhus had a history of hiding things from Esmenet. It doesn't seem that implausible that one or more (though definitely not many) of the concubines' children survived, and were kept hidden from Esmenet (and maybe even their half-siblings) for some unknown purpose. We already saw a previously unknown child of Kellhus appear in the story, and speculation about Moënghus' other children goes on to this day. Would this really be that much of a stretch?

The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TDTCB, Chapter 9
« on: June 03, 2018, 11:14:04 pm »
It's already technically Monday over here, so let the discussion begin!

And the Nonman King cried words that sting:
"Now to me you must confess,
For death above you hovers!"
And the Emissary answered ever wary:
"We are the race of flesh,
We are the race of lovers."


Sister thread to this one. Thinking about the POVs we wish to see next made me start thinking about all of those we wish we could have had but never did.

I'm not making this a poll because I figure opinions have the potentially to vary immensely here. The criteria I'm establishing here are: a) characters that were alive at the beginning of the series and are currently confirmed as being dead (with little or no possibility of showing up as "secondary POVs" in a flashback, Dream, etc.) and b) never had a single section from their POV in any of the 7 books of the series. (Okay, I'll make exceptions for historical, long-dead characters if any of those are at the top of your lists, but I really didn't want this thread to be all about those.)
So, whose POV(s) would you have loved to see?

I think everyone knows who I'm going to pick - yes, I wish we could have had a Thelli POV. She was already such an interesting character to me even without one, I'd have loved to have a look into...the thoughts of Thelli, you might say. ;) And that's all I'll say on this here, because trust me, you'll get tired of me going on about Thelli when we get to TAE on the reread.
Someone else whose POV I'd have liked to see is Maithanet. Of course we didn't get one in PON for obvious reasons, but I'd have liked to get a window into his mind in TAE, when we were already well aware of who he was. We never got a true feeling of his true personality - was he similar to Kayûtas and Serwa, resigned to acting like a reliable tool for his father's (and later his half-brother's) plans? Did he have an agenda of his own we never knew about? These are not things we could have learned from Esmenet or Kelmomas' POVs, and sadly now we'll never know.

The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TDTCB, Chapter 8
« on: May 28, 2018, 11:44:44 am »
It's Monday, let's put this show on the road!

Kings never lie. They demand the world be mistaken.

When we truly apprehend the Gods, the Nilnameshi sages say, we recognize them not as kings but thieves. This is among the wisest of blasphemies, for we always see the king who cheats us, never the thief.

General Misc. / Tragedy Series
« on: May 27, 2018, 06:35:58 pm »
My only regret is that it took me until today to discover this. Very surreal at times, will not amuse everyone, but I admit some of those had me laughing way too much.

As I mentioned in the Quorum today, back when I was an active member at the Podcast of Ice and Fire forum, we had this thing going where we'd draw an MS Paint version of every chapter for a given book in the series (one thread per book, starting, of course, at the beginning of the series). Anyone who wanted to join would claim a chapter and then post their depiction of it in the thread (using nothing but MS Paint) whenever they could (no time limits here). It was quite fun at times, and it was always great to see what different people came up with (and what particular scene(s) they chose to focus on in their drawing).
Like I said in the Quorum, TSA doesn't need to be all grimdark all the time, it can be amusing, as most of you may agree. ;) This would also give everyone who doesn't have amazing drawing skills (like yours truly) the chance to create some actual TSA fanart.

So, would anyone be interested?

EDIT: As this is a small community, if enough people end up joining, I don't see why we couldn't have two (or more) versions of the same chapter. That just didn't happen in the APOIAF forums because it was a much bigger community, and people wanted to avoid having dozens of versions of the same chapter.

I though this would be a good idea, it occurred to me after creating the death predictions thread.
I'm still counting Malowebi as a possible returning POV because he still retained awareness after Kellhus died, meaning he could very well live on as a severed head.
I'm also assuming KelSammi (what I started calling the Kelmomas-with-Samarmas'-soul entity) will no longer be a POV as the No-God.
Also not counting the Omniscient POV because I want this poll to be character-based (and I assume no one would pick that one anyway).

The No-God / Deaths in TNG
« on: May 12, 2018, 05:30:51 pm »
I figured it would be a good idea to make a thread for death predictions pre-series. That way, anyone who happens to be right can smugly say they called it. ;)
Anyone who's feeling adventurous can speculate on actual causes of death for extra points.

My own ideas about who will die are still very fuzzy (especially since there aren't that many characters 100% confirmed to still be alive by the end of TUC), but as of now I feel rather confident that Achamian and Esmenet will both die during this series (even if just close to the end). My (admittedly not very strong) reasoning: Achamian, Cnaiür, Kellhus, Esmenet and Serwë were the five main characters (per the character and faction glossary) at the beginning of TSA. Serwë was the first to die in TWP, Cnaiür appeared to die in TTT only to survive and actually die in TUC (his physical body was disintegrated, I'm choosing to disregard current theories and count him as dead), and Kellhus died in TUC (again, ignoring all the theories). Achamian and Esmenet are the last of the "old guard", and not only among those top 5 - pretty much all characters that had had a role of at least some significance during PON and survived the events of that series died during TAE (Maithanet, Proyas, Saubon, Iyokus, Fanayal, Aurang, Mekeritrig...). It would make thematic sense for these two last remaining characters to die at the end of the second apocalypse as (hopefully) a new age begins.

General Q&A / [TUC Spoilers] Nirimenes?
« on: May 02, 2018, 04:32:03 pm »
When working on the wiki's character list a while back, I came across this entry in the TUC glossary:

Nirimenes (4078-)-Ordealman and sorcerer-of-rank in the School of Mandate.

The thing is, this character doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere else outside of the TUC glossary. Since admittedly I might have missed it due to, you know, making a character list via actual physical books, I tried to use Google and the only results were the entry that I quoted above and the character list in the TSA wiki.
Who is this character, then? Did I just miss him being mentioned? Was he included in a scene that was later cut from the book or something?

The Unholy Consult / Serwa seen with the Judging Eye
« on: May 01, 2018, 01:15:53 pm »
I'm referring to this passage:

Quote from: TUC Chapter 17
Sees a slender Ciphrang hanging as high as the future, showering the earth with death-a witch, wet with the fires of damnation, burns heaped upon burns.

I still can't understand why Serwa (who is at most 17 years old at this point) would be so damned as to qualify as a potential Ciphrang. Sure, she is a witch, but Mimara looked at Nil'giccas, who had been using sorcery for thousands of years, with the Judging Eye and did not see him as a Ciphrang. Unlike characters such as Cnaiür or Kosoter, Serwa isn't responsible for decades of murder, rape, torture, destruction, etc. So what exactly is the factor (or factors) that make Serwa into a potential Ciphrang?

The Unholy Consult / Seswatha and Nau-Cayûti's fate
« on: April 10, 2018, 03:41:24 pm »
This is something that I kept wondering about the other day (and that I briefly mentioned on the Quorum yesterday).

In TUC, we have confirmation of Nau-Cayûti's true fate, that after years of torture he was placed in the Carapace, resulting in the activation of the No-God.
The TUC glossary also states that his wife Iëva was tried and executed for his "murder" in 2140, which is something that hadn't been confirmed before.
Quote from: TUC Glossary
Iëva (2112-2140)-Legendary wife of Anasûrimbor Nau-Cayûti, tried and executed for his murder in 2140.
We knew from TWLW that Iëva had insisted in having Nau-Cayûti buried rather than burned as was the custom (and, of course, we know the reason for that).
Quote from: TWLW, Chapter 12
"But you will not die, my heroic husband. Oh no! For I will fall upon your corpse, and I will wail-wail-wail, claiming to the Bull Heavens that you demanded to be buried rather than burned-like a Nonman!"

But what does this mean in-universe? Certainly, once Iëva was found guilty of murdering her husband, her request to have him buried would start to look suspicious. I have wondered if Seswatha in particular could have tried to figure out what had happened to his beloved student (and possible son). It's not that unlikely that he could have realized that Nau-Cayûti had been taken prisoner by the Consult.
Is it possible, though, that eventually he could have discovered (or at least suspected) Nau-Cayûti's ultimate fate? That might seem unlikely...but there are Achamian's changing dreams to consider. Could the dreams about Nau-Cayûti imply that Seswatha knew? This would surely add a further layer of tragedy to the First Apocalypse, particularly to Celmomas' death and prophetic vision and to the defeat of the No-God.

What does everyone else think?

By now you all must be tired of seeing this kind of posts from me. ;) But anyway, I figured it would be a good idea to get all of the series' inconsistencies and mistakes that I (and anyone else who wants to add some) notice over time.

I'll provide links to posts if the inconsistency/mistake has been pointed out/discussed in previous threads. I am aware some of these might be intentional on Bakker's part (and I'm sure someone will point that out) but I'm going to listen them all the same. Besides, I have a hard time believing some of the ones pertaining to fairly recent history in-universe are intentional...
So, here's what I found, in rough chronological (in-series) order:

Amrezzer the Black's lifespan

Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Amrezzer the Black"
Amrezzer the Black (1753-1897)--Legendary Surartu Grandmaster responsible for securing the river fortress of Kiz in Far Antique Carythusal, c. 1800, called the "Black" for his propensity to burn down the homes of those opposed to him.
From those dates, he would have lived to be 143-144 years old. Could Bakker mean 1797 rather than 1897?
However, as Amrezzer lived millennia before the series' events, it's likely that it could be a deliberate inconsistency. Or he really did live that long and chanv (or something similar) was involved?

The name of Nau-Cayûti's mother

The name of Nau-Cayûti's mother is initially given as Sharal.
Quote from: TTT & TUC Glossaries, "Seswatha"
He and Celmomas would become estranged during this time, apparently because Celmomas resented Seswatha's influence over his youngest son, Nau-Cayûti, but legends have long circulated that Nau-Cayûti was in fact Seswatha's son, the product of an illicit union between him and Sharal, the most prized of Celmomas's wives.
In one of Achamian's dreams in TJE, however, her name is given as Suriala:
Quote from: TJE, Chapter 2
When he found her--Suriala, glorious and wanton Suriala--he knelt in accordance with the very Laws he was about to break.
I'll admit that this might also be a deliberate inconsistency... And/or maybe Sharal and Suriala could be variants of the same name? (The same name in two different languages?) They look similar enough for that.

The death of En-Kaujalau

Quote from: TTT & TUC Glossaries, "Apocalypse"
In 2141, the Consult returned to the offensive, wrongly thinking the Kûniüri crippled by the loss of their greatest and most beloved son. But Nau-Cayûti's mead-brothers proved themselves able, even brilliant, commanders. At the Battle of Skothera, the Sranc hordes were crushed by General En-Kaujalau, though he died of mysterious causes within weeks of this victory (according to The Sagas, he was another victim of Iëva and her poisons, but again this is disputed by Mandate scholars).
But in the "Iëva" entry from the TUC glossary, we learned she had died the previous year...
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Iëva"
Iëva (2112-2140)--Legendary wife of Anasûrimbor Nau-Cayûti, tried and executed for his murder in 2140.
Once again, this might be deliberate. Maybe that's even what the "this is disputed by Mandate scholars" bit refers to? They would know for a fact Iëva predeceased En-Kaujalau via Seswatha, while The Sagas were written quite a while after the Apocalypse (if I remember correctly) and the order of events might have been more muddled by that point.

Sorgis dynasty and where it falls in the timeline

Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Homirras, Ersa"
Homirras, Ersa (3972-4025)--Author of The Ten Thousand Day Dynasty, a history of the short-lived ascendency of House Sorgis in Nansur, banned both by the Ikurei and the Anasûrimbor, allegedly for arguing that power corrupts rather than purifies souls. He would die in the Tower of Ziek in 4025.
This is all we know about the Sorgis dynasty. If the Eärwan year is about the same length of ours, that would mean this dynasty was in power for ~27 years. The problem is, while working on the wiki entries of the other Imperial Houses, I've realized that the Sorgis dynasty doesn't really fit anywhere.
From the "Nansur Empire" and "Ikurei Dynasty" entries in both glossaries (bolding of dates mine):
Quote from: TTT & TUC Glossaries, "Nansur Empire"
It was under the Trimus Emperors (3411-3508) that the "Nansur" (the traditional name for the district surrounding Momemn) emerged from the chaos following Cenei's destruction to unify the Kyranae plains. But true Imperial expansion did not occur until the Zerxei Dynasty (3511-3619), which, under the rule of successive and short-lived Emperors, managed to conquer Shigek (3539), Enathpaneah (3569), and the Sacred Lands (3574).
Under the Surmante Emperors (3619-3941), the Nansurium enjoyed its greatest period of growth and military ascendancy, culminating in the rule of Surmante Xatantius I (3644-93), who subdued the Cepaloran tribes as far north as the Vindauga River, and who even managed to capture the ancient Nilnameshi capital of Invishi, thus very nearly restoring all the so-called Western Empire that had once belonged to Cenei.
Quote from: TTT & TUC Glossaries, "Ikurei Dynasty"
Ikurei Dynasty--Always one of the more powerful Houses of the Congregate, the Ikurei seized the Imperial Mantle in 3941, capitalizing on the turmoil following the loss of Shigek and then Gedea to Kian in the Dagger Jihad. Ikurei Sorius I became the first of a line of shrewd yet defensive Ikurei Emperors.
Therefore, we have:
-Trimus Dynasty from 3411-3508 (this being the first dynasty);
-Zerxei Dynasty from 3511-3619;
-Surmante Dynasty from 3619-3941;
-Ikurei Dynasty from 3941-4112 (as we know from TTT and onwards).
There's not really any time there for House Sorgis' reign to have taken place, apart from those 3 years between the Trimus and Zerxei dynasties. And 3 years does not equal 10000 days (unless the Eärwan year actually is that long, but that would only raise further issues).

Reigns of the Ikurei Emperors

The Nansur Empire is full of inconsistencies, as it turns out...
Remember when Conphas mentioned a particular ancestor of his in his POV?
Quote from: TDTCB, Chapter 8
As always, Conphas glanced at the spot where Ikurei Anphairas, his great-great-grandfather, had been assassinated more than a century before.
We get an entry for Anphairas in the TTT glossary (the TUC one is slightly different, but keeps the dates):
Quote from: TTT Glossary, "Ikurei Anphairas I"
Ikurei Anphairas I (4022-81)--The Emperor of Nansur from 4066 to 4081, and grandfather of Ikurei Xerius III, assassinated by persons unknown.
Inconsistency #1: Conphas' great-great-grandfather would have been Xerius' great-grandfather, not his grandfather.
Inconsistency #2: The chapter where Conphas mentions him takes place in late autumn of 4111. Going by the date given in the glossary, Anphairas had been dead for ~30 years at that point, not over a century.
But wait, it gets even more inconsistent...
Throughout PON, we get the idea that Xerius became Emperor at a young age. There are these quotes about how his mother seducing him led to his murder of his father:
Quote from: TDTCB, Chapter 7
Those words! Tremors spilled into Xerius's hands. He clasped them together. Attempted to gather his thoughts. Looked away from their wolfish faces. All those years ago! Fumbling with a small black vial the size of a child's finger, pouring the poison into his father's ear. His father!
Quote from: TDTCB, Chapter 7
The old, insatiable Empress alone was indispensable. Those times, in his youth, when she had awakened him in the heart of night, stroking his cock, tormenting him with pleasure, cooing into his tongue-wet ear: "Emperor Xerius ... Can you feel it, my lovely, godlike son?"
Not to mention how long Skeaös was said to have been serving as his Prime Counsel:
Quote from: TDTCB, Chapter 18
"My Prime Counsel ... of thirty years."
This could still make sense if Xerius' unnamed father became Emperor in 4081 following Anphairas' death and had an extremely short reign before being murdered by his son.
We do know Xerius' age from the TTT glossary, though:
Quote from: TTT Glossary, "Ikurei Xerius III"
Ikurei Xerius III (4059-)--The Emperor of the Nansur Empire.
This would make Xerius 21-22 at the time of Anphairas' death, which, while not directly contradicting anything that has been said before, does not sound quite right. It would make more sense to have Anphairas die earlier, giving it more time for Xerius' father to have a longer reign and for Xerius to have succeeded his father at a young age.
There is still another inconsistency regarding Xerius' age, but this entry is long enough already, so that one is listed separately below.

Extinction of the line of Nejata Medekki and where it falls in the timeline

Discussion on that can be found here.

Xerius' age

We have this passage from Xerius' POV:
Quote from: TDTCB, Chapter 5
He had received innumerable petitioners in his forty-five years, embassies of war and peace from across the Three Seas, but as Skeaös had said, he had never hosted an audience such as this.
This takes place in early summer of 4110. As mentioned above, Xerius' birth year is given as 4059. Therefore, he would be 50-51 at this time, not 45.
Much like in the case of Theliopa in TJE mentioned below, I believe this was something later retconned by Bakker in the glossary.

Cnaiür's age and birth year

Birth year estimations and discussion of the existing inconsistencies can be found here and here.

Obwë Gûswuran's birth year

We get this from his glossary entry (bolding of the date mine):
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Gûswuran, Obwë"
Gûswuran, Obwë (4178-)--Ordealman, Grandmaster of the Mysunsai in the Great Ordeal of Anasûrimbor Kellhus, renowned for his religious zealotry, a character trait never before seen in the so-called "Mercenary School".
His year of birth is very obviously wrong, presumably Bakker meant 4078.

Xarotas Harnilas' birth year

This case is very much the same as Obwë Gûswuran's above (again, bolding of date mine):
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Harnilas, Xarotas"
Harnilas, Xarotas (4187-4132)--Ordealman, Kidruhil Captain of the Scions, a unit consisting of treaty hostages.
Bakker presumably meant 4087 here.

The Battle of Maän and how it relates to Proyas' age

This is the first time this battle is mentioned in the series (bolding mine):
Quote from: TDTCB, Chapter 17
"That man there," the Prince continued, gesturing to a thick-waisted Tydonni beyond the Galeoth, "is Hoga Gothyelk, Earl of Agansanor and elected leader of the contingent from Ce Tydonn. Before I was born, my father was bested by him at the Battle of Maän. He calls his limp 'Gothyelk's gift.'"
From the glossaries (bolding of date mine):
Quote from: TTT & TUC Glossaries, "Battle of Maän"
Battle of Maän--A minor battle fought between Conriya and Ce Tydonn in 4092.
Proyas was young during the First Holy War, sure, but he can't have been born in or after 4092...remember that second tutor of his, Charamemas, who replaced Achamian? (again, bolding of date mine)
Quote from: TTT & TUC Glossaries, "Charamemas"
Charamemas (4036-4108)--The famed Shrial commentator and author of The Ten Holies. Achamian's replacement as Proyas's tutor in exoterics in 4093.
Maybe the Battle of Maän was supposed to have taken place in 4082 instead?

Abbarsallas' year of death and how it relates to when Mimara was sold into slavery

Discussed here.

Thurhig Bogyar's birth year

Again, similar to the cases of Gûswuran and Harnilas above (once more, bolding of date mine):
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Bogyar, Thurhig"
Bogyar, Thurhig (4000-4132)--Holca Ordealman, descendant of the famed Thurror Eryelk, and Spearbearer to Coithus Saubon during the Great Ordeal.
Since I have no recollection of the Holca having ridiculously long lifespans in addition to their two hearts (feel free to correct me), I'm going to go ahead and guess Bakker meant 4100 here.

The name of Proyas' father

I actually already mentioned this somewhere in the TUC subforum last summer, but as it is a simple inconsistency, I'll explain it here again.
The name of Proyas' father is first given in TTT as Eukernas II:
Quote from: TTT, Chapter 4
On another occasion, they encountered a party of Tydonni footmen-some of Lord Iyengar's Nangaels, it turned out-bearing a fresh boar hoisted above them on the points of some seven or eight spears, an ancient rite of vassalage that Achamian had once witnessed in the court of Proyas's father, Eukernas II.
He is not named again until TUC, where his name has apparently been changed to Onoyas:
Quote from: TUC, Chapter 10
On his deathbed, proud Onoyas had called for his son knowing he would not come ...
Quote from: TUC, Chapter 11
Not so high above, the bound form of Proyas, blessed son of Queen Thaila and King Onoyas, swayed on slow revolutions ...

Sirol ab Kascamandri's birth year

Quote from: TTT & TUC Glossaries, "Sirol ab Kascamandri"
Sirol ab Kascamandri (4004-)--The youngest daughter of Kascamandri ab Tepherokar.
If Sirol had been born in 4004, she'd be 107-108 during TWP/TTT... I'm guessing Bakker meant 4104 (making her 7-8 years old at the time).

Sonhail Hortha's death year

This was originally pointed out by Mondoënghus here.
From the glossary (once again, bolding of date mine):
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Hortha, Sonhail"
Hortha, Sonhail (4064-4121)--Man-of-the-Tusk, Galeoth knight, client to Prince Coithus Saubon, whelmed as a Judge following the conquest of Shimeh, only to be found murdered in Aöknyssus under suspicious circumstances some six months afterward.
The conquest of Shimeh took place in the spring of 4112, adding six months to that would place Hortha's death around the autumn of 4112, not 4121.

Hringa Rauschang's year of death

Once more, bolding of date mine:
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Rauschang, Hringa"
Rauschang, Hringa (4054-4014)--The King of Thunyerus and father of Skaiyelt and Hulwarga.
4114 is likely the year meant here.

Coithus Agabon's birth year

I mentioned this before as well, but it's also a small thing, so here it is again.
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Agabon, Coithus"
Agabon, Coithus (4124-4132)--Ordealman and youngest son of King Coithus Narnol, among the first to perish on the Great Ordeal's trek across the Istyuli Plains.
If Agabon had been born in 4124, he'd just be 7-8 years old as of's likely that the intended year of birth here was 4114 (making him 17-18).

Theliopa's age

Regarding this quote:
Quote from: TJE, Chapter 5
The sixteen-year-old could scarce look at another's face, so deep was her horror of chancing upon a gaze.
First discussed by Werthead and me here (in the linked post and the ones following it), and you also have my estimation for Thelli's year of birth here. Basically, there's no way she could be 16 (even if she'd still turn 17 that year) during TAE because of how it would affect Serwa and Inrilatas' respective ages.
I suppose this could be considered as having been retconned (as Werthead suggested) given the Nenciphon temporal reference in the TUC glossary (the one I base my estimation on)?

Timing of Mimara's flight from the Andiamine Heights

In TUC, Mimara thinks of how she fled the Andiamine Heights the previous winter:
Quote from: TUC, Chapter 11
The whole of her life awaited her in those canvas slums-everyone she had fled the previous winter ... Serwa ... Kayûtas ... What would she say? How could she explain? And her stepfather--what would Anasûrimbor Kellhus do with what he saw in her face?
But in the second part of the TJE prologue (the one after Kelmomas' Whelming), which takes place in the late autumn of 4131, we learn from Kelmomas' POV that Mimara had already fled the Andiamine Heights by that point:
Quote from: TJE Prologue
"Are you thinking of her, Mommy?" he asked. Between the two of them, "her" always meant Mimara, her first daughter, the one she loved with the most desperation--and hated.
The one the secret voice had told him to drive away.
I know, I know, this one is very nitpicky on my part, because Mimara could have left very recently by the time of the prologue, could be misremembering the exact time of year she left after everything that happened since then, etc.

The date of the Momemn chapters during TGO and TUC

The date at the beginning of the later Momemn chapters of TGO (chapters 11 and 16) and chapter 1 of TUC is given as:
Mid-Autumn, 20 New Imperial Year (4132, Year-of-the-Tusk)
However, every single TUC chapter after the first has a date of:
Early Autumn, 20 New Imperial Year (4132, Year-of-the-Tusk)
So, the date on the aforementioned three chapters should be early autumn of 4132 as well. I'm assuming this (in TUC at least) was something from an earlier draft that wasn't changed?

Who is the Biaxi Patridomos as of TAE

Pointed out here.

I'll add more to the main post as I find them.

Serwa's "promotion":
I've noticed that in TUC, Serwa starts being referred to as "Exalt-Magus" sometime after her return to the Ordeal. Before that, Saccarees was the one who appeared to hold that title (going by mentions in TGO).
Does this mean Serwa was the Exalt-Magus all along and Saccarees replaced her in her absence? It doesn't seem so in TJE and TWLW, as her only title in those books (aside from Princess-Imperial, of course) seems to be Grandmistress of the Swayali.
(Not going to add any quotes here, as it doesn't seem necessary, there are quite a few mentions of the Exalt-Magus title anyway...)

Patridomos of House Biaxi:
This was something I noticed while working on the character list (the Serwa thing had been noticed before, just kept forgetting about it). The glossary entries both refer to Sankas and Tarpellas as Patridomos of House Biaxi:
Sankas, Biaxi (4066-4132)-The Patridomos of House Biaxi, and confidant of Anasûrimbor Esmenet. Granted Consulship of Nansur after the arrest of Cutias Pansulla in 4132. Found murdered in the Andiamine Heights the autumn of that same year.
Tarpellas, Biaxi (4101-)-Ordealman, Patridomos of House Biaxi, General of the Nansur contingent of the Great Ordeal of Anasûrimbor Kellhus.
Well, this might make sense, maybe Tarpellas succeeded Sankas (the fact of Sankas' death being known through Kellhus or the like). The ages make it possible that Tarpellas was Sankas' son (despite the fact that it was never actually stated what their family relationship was). Tarpellas could still be next in line regardless of family relationship.
The problem with this is that Tarpellas is referred as the Patridomos of House Biaxi in chapter 2 of TWLW (spring of 4132), months before Sankas' death:
They consisted of the disciplined Nansur under the young General Biaxi Tarpellas, Patridomos of House Biaxi, a shrewd tactician
Do you all think we might have a slight inconsistency here? Apart from this line, everything could make sense if you assumed Tarpellas had succeeded Sankas as Patridomos.

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