Earwa > The Warrior-Prophet
The heart
What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Fëanor ---What do you think about the trick of the heart? When Kellhus, almost dying, is cut free from the circumfix and reaches to his heart and shows it to the multitude, with haloed hands... (that too, what with those haloes?)
I didn´t find any answer in the subsequent books. Any of you know something, from another source maybe?
Conjectures, Nerdanels?
To me it would be very disappointing if they turn out to be "miracles". No miracles allowed in SF or fantasy (in good fantasy, I mean). I believe that Kellhus is indeed manipulating people with that idea, of being some God amongst men (or THE God), and that's the point of these tricks, plainfully... but we know better.
Do we?
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: lockesnow ---I think the favored theory is that Kellhus reached into his chest, but his hand/arm went into the outside rather than into his chest, it then came back inward inside of Serwe's chest and grabbed her heart, then he withdrew his hand through the hole, looking all the world like he'd just pulled out his own heart. He was able to do this through some outside soul shenanigans that I don't metaphysically much understand and it was enabled by Serwe's sacrifice/attachment/-soul-close-to-his-outside or some such.
or it was just sleight of hand and he already had her heart secreted on his person and he just pulled off an illusion.
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Madness ---I think it's interesting that you suggest miracles "aren't allowed" in SFF, Feanor.
I remember Bakker wrote on Three-Seas once that there was a scene cut between Cnaiur and Kellhus - he felt the ambiguity we wrestle with concerning Kellhus' Circumfixion and Serwa's Heart reflected the lack of this other scene.
But bar sleight of hand, I think lockesnow has the current consensus down, something I've only gotten on board with in the past two years. It's really only since WLW that I ever really considered the agency, effects, and metaphysics of the Outside in the Second Apocalypse.
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Fëanor ---Hm, yeah, the Outside again. TAE comes heavy with that. I say I am 50/50 with each one (that, and the quick hand, haha).
The haloes? Baskerville trick?
About the "not allowed"... its a way of saying that Fantasy and SF are miracles themselves... so why curling the curl? If the autor subcreates a world/universe in which rules are different, nature is different, even Gods (I prefer books with no God intervention, though some deitys may be "allowed"... not Homer like (acting, fighting in the battlefield and conspiring with this or that party) but Tolkien (watching... and eventually breaking half the world)) anyway, I was saying, if they have this miraculous stage... they don't need miracles within. Forgive my english again, it's difficult to talk these stuff and make it understandable.
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Madness ---You're doing fine, Feanor, don't worry about it. The beauty of communication... hell, I'd love to see any of us English speakers try this in Spanish ;).
I get the distinctions and, honestly, I feel like Bakker will author Gods & Miracles somewhere between Homer and Tolkien - he has said both are heavy precursors.
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