Earwa > The Warrior-Prophet

Cnaiur and Fate, After Anwurat

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locke:

--- Quote ---Cnaiür looked down, startled. A young woman, her leg slicked in blood, an infant strapped to her back, clutched his knee, beseeching him in some unknown tongue. He raised his boot to kick her, then unaccountably lowered it. He leaned forward and hoisted her before him onto his saddle. She fairly shrieked tears. He wheeled his black around and spurred after the fleeing camp-followers.

He heard an arrow buzz by his ear.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02). The Warrior Prophet: The Prince of Nothing, Book Two (Kindle Locations 6508-6511). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
She appears moments after he draws his sword to face down innumerable of kianene cavalry who have just recognized him.  After he takes her into his saddle the arrow misses.  Fate.

Sections change, then this.

--- Quote ---The woman alternately looked forward, then yanked her head backward to the Kianene— as did, absurdly, her black-haired infant. Strange, Cnaiür thought, the way infants knew when to be calm. Suddenly Fanim horsemen erupted through the northern entrance as well. He swerved to the right, galloped along the airy white tents, searching for a way to barge between. When he saw none, he raced for the corner. More and more Kianene thundered through the eastern entrance, fanning across the field. Those behind pounded nearer. Several more arrows whisked through the air about them. He wheeled his black about, knocked the woman face first onto the dusty turf. The babe finally started screeching. He tossed her a knife— to cut through canvas …

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02). The Warrior Prophet: The Prince of Nothing, Book Two (Kindle Locations 6538-6543). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---“Who,” Cnaiür roared, so fiercely all his skin seemed throat, “will murder me?”

A piercing, feminine cry. Cnaiür glanced back, saw the nameless woman swaying at the entrance of the nearest tent. She gripped the knife he’d thrown her, gestured with it for him to follow. For an instant, it seemed he’d always known her, that they’d been lovers for long years. He saw sunlight flash through the far side of the tent where she’d cut open the canvas. Then he glimpsed a shadow from above, heard something not quite …

Several Kianene cried out— a different terror.

Cnaiür thrust his left hand beneath his girdle, clutched tight his father’s Trinket.

For an instant he met the woman’s wide uncomprehending eyes, and over her shoulder, those of her baby boy as well … Somehow he knew that now— that he was a son. He tried to cry out. They became shadows in a cataract of shimmering flame.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02). The Warrior Prophet: The Prince of Nothing, Book Two (Kindle Locations 6564-6566). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---

So did Cnaiur ride through the camps with the Whore herself that day?  Particularly note the part I bolded.   She, with the infant boy, an infant that Cnaiur recognizes as only a boy at the end (in a preternatural 'knowing') seem to symbolically be Serwe and her infant son, she more or less guides Cnaiur through the warzone of the camps to the protection of the Scarlet Spires, and this allows Cnaiur to get to Serwe.  Would Fate, that capricious whore, take an avatar only to discard it into the flames of sorcery?  Note that she even cuts his escape route through the canvas, knows without his telling what he meant for her to do when he tossed her his knife.

It all seems extremely frought with Gods interference on a reread.

Wilshire:
I think there might be more than meets the eye in this passage, but I actually disagree with the section you put in bold being significant. That specific sentence looks to me like a man in desperation, finding similarities between a woman and child that might have looked like someone he knew in the past. Or perhaps finding a kindred spirit in the common flight of a common enemy.

Other sections, like the original passage where the arrow misses, sees like it could be fate. How hard would it be to hit a stationary man on a horse? That said, later, when more arrows miss, I think that could just be difficulties hitting a moving target from horseback and much less likely to be some kind of intervention.

I didn't think that the 'whore of fate' was actually a goddess, more of an idea to describe chance, but turns out I forgot about the Goddess Anagke (The Goddess of fortune, also known as "the Whore of Fate").

Cüréthañ:
Tend to agree that outside agencies might active here.  Crack-pot speculations to follow...

With Cnaiur I suspect Gilgaol or Lokung are the entities that would have an interest in him and manipulating events through him.
Gilgaol would be inclined to reward Cnaiur's personification of warlike attributes by leveraging events to allow him to wreak greater carnage (i.e. not die at that juncture) - and remember War and Birth alone may seize (so Cnaiur need not be an adherent to recieve the god's 'blessing').

Lokung as an outside entity I could see as a key to the creation of the No-god.  Explaining why the Scylvendi are important to the consult and their culture remains locked in a ossified and unevolving state.  Their existence and continued worship of their dead divity might be important to the no-gods resurrection and the manner in which Kellhus communes with him.  Considering Cnaiur's importance in revealing certain things to the consult after surviving the events in question, Lokung might have motivation in manipulating said events to ensure his reincarnation as the no-god. 

Disinclined to agree about Fate being the mover.  She seems depicted as the kind of entity that goes for ironic lols at the expense of her pawns.
 

locke:

--- Quote from: Wilshire on April 22, 2013, 07:38:26 pm ---I think there might be more than meets the eye in this passage, but I actually disagree with the section you put in bold being significant. That specific sentence looks to me like a man in desperation, finding similarities between a woman and child that might have looked like someone he knew in the past. Or perhaps finding a kindred spirit in the common flight of a common enemy.

Other sections, like the original passage where the arrow misses, sees like it could be fate. How hard would it be to hit a stationary man on a horse? That said, later, when more arrows miss, I think that could just be difficulties hitting a moving target from horseback and much less likely to be some kind of intervention.

I didn't think that the 'whore of fate' was actually a goddess, more of an idea to describe chance, but turns out I forgot about the Goddess Anagke (The Goddess of fortune, also known as "the Whore of Fate").

--- End quote ---

In terms of difficulty, Cnaiur is drawing arrows and firing back and hitting a target every time.  I think the passage I bolded is important, because besides the symbolic significance of a woman having just given birth, that bolded passage is what indicates some supernatural connection, any warrior who has lived as long as Cnaiur has been one of Fate's "lovers" for many years.  In this world there is no chance or happenstance or lucky breaks, Cnaiur has been surviving for a long time for a reason. And his recognition in that moment seems to indicate the woman is more than what she seems.

**
As for the assertion it was Gilgaol, that doesn't make sense because Cnaiur enters this scene on the basis of FLEEING from battle and war, I think in those circumstances, Gilgaol wouldn't be riding him as he probably does in other circumstances.  However WHY did Cnaiur flee?  He fled to save Serwe.  Again, not a circumstance that Gilgaol would favor (saving a woman, a whore, why should a warrior care about such things?).  However it does seem like a circumstance that FATE might favor, Cnaiur risking himself and his reputation and SACRIFICING the battle for a whore (like fate).

And also note after this sequence, when Kellhus meets Cnaiur he discovers that Cnaiur's face has been wiped completely blank and that he can no longer read him.  this plays into why he keeps Cnaiur around, though Kellhus does a blindingly obvious post-hoc rationalization that it is pity he feels (look at the text, Kellhus doesn't have a thought that could be construed as pity, he recognizes a blank face and then does a rationalization that he feels pity and stops thinking about the disturbing fact of the blank-faceness (heuristic compression?)).  The only other instance we can really 'assume' that Kellhus encounters a face he cannot read is Sorweel who was blessed by a god...

And if you really want to get into conspiracy theories, Cnaiur is blessed by Fate so he can save Serwe.  Fate causes Cnaiur to draw the battle to the encampment of the Scarlet Spires, which turns the defeat at Anwurat into a nominal victory.  Fate doing this allows Cnaiur to save Serwe.  By Saving Serwe, Fate preserves Serwe for the upcoming Circumfix.  By blessing Cnaiur, Fate causes Kellhus to preserve the only character who can do battle with a Skinspy and defeat them in open combat (at the Circumfix).  Fate, by getting Cnaiur to abandon/sacrifice the battle, assures a later victory at the Circumfix.  Because Kellhus intended to kill Cnaiur but was MOVED by something he did not grok (just like when he WITNESSED the rape of Serwe).  Kellhus being typical blind Kellhus attributes this Movement to world-born emotions (like pity), when the reader should be thinking it is possible that Kellhus is being manipulated by the Gods in these instances, yet his arrogance blinds him to their presence and maneuvering.

Wilshire:
No need to only refer to the Goddess of Fortune as the Whore. Drawing her inclination towards whores makes her seem like Yatwer or (insert other goddess name here).

Anyway, hitting a moving target whilst on horesback seems like a bit of a blessing too doesn't it? Maybe he is being favored by both Fortune and War at the same time? Though that to me is attributing WAY to much to the gods (who IMO have only shown minimal involvement beyond what we have seen from Yatwer).  There is such thing as luck and happenstance and the Wold Conspiring, which all happen outside the wants of Gods. Why force everything that happens to be the will of god? Seems a bit too biased for me to agree with fully.

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