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Messages - Duskweaver

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46
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 20, 2017, 07:26:38 pm »
But Psukhe is cognitive.
But Bakker has explicitly stated that the Psukhe is non-cognitive, and that it "has no truck with warring versions of reality".

47
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 20, 2017, 10:01:37 am »
Yeah, IIRC, Bakker said the salting is a side-effect. The problem is that he never stated what it's a side-effect of.

To me, it reads like a Chorae shunts a sorcerer into the Outside, somehow drawing back an equal mass/volume of either salt or water depending on whether it's a Schoolman or a Cish.

But I still have no idea why that happens. Why does paradox shunt imperfection into the realm of the subjective?

EDIT: And even if that can be resolved, it still doesn't make sense to me that paradox can undo the non-cognitive Psukhe.

48
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 20, 2017, 09:44:52 am »
Huh. Actually, I think you might be on to something there. The soulless cannot comprehend paradox (c.f. Soma-Spy), which already implies a link between paradox and the divine. Also fits in with the implication (from various stuff said by Kellhus and from the Survivor's PoV in TGO) that the God of Gods / the Absolute is somehow both Zero and One - i.e. a paradox. So to create a little sphere of self-sustaining omni-paradox is somehow to create a tiny fragment of the Godhead?

None of that actually explains why Chorae do what they do to sorcerers, though. Why does coming into contact with divine paradox turn Schoolmen into salt, or Cishaurim into "sodden rags" (I'm still not really sure what it does to Cish, other than that it's fatal)? And why don't they do the same to other ensoulled beings?

49
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 19, 2017, 03:34:17 pm »
This is all complicated somewhat by Mimara looking at a Chorae with the Judging Eye and seeing it as actually divine after all. So maybe "Tear of God" is not just an epithet coined by ignorant fools who don't recognise a sorcerous artefact when they see one. Did the exiled Aporetic Quya who allied with the Inchoroi accidentally create something thaumaturgical rather than sorcerous?

I don't think an explanation for how Chorae work that treats them as purely sorcerous items will be able to resolve all these issues.

50
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Mysunsai and the Red Ghoul
« on: August 19, 2017, 07:30:20 am »
A good example of Bakker's writing at it's murkiest. Like, this didn't need to be so confusing.
War is Confusion. Bakker's 'murkiness' is actually what makes his battle scenes feel so real to me. Bloody tragedy following in the wake of the blind flailing of flawed and blundering humanity. Passion yoked to blindness, bringing ruin.

51
The Unholy Consult / Re: Zaudunyanicon Q&A
« on: August 18, 2017, 03:53:34 pm »
It can't be a real influence if Bakker wasn't aware of whatever that thing is, but that doesn't mean one can't make the argument that there are similarities and parallels even though Bakker didn't put them there intentionally.
I would argue that we are all influenced by lots of things we're not consciously aware of.

An example. A friend of mine, who likes to play elves (or the equivalent) in fantasy RPGs, always gives his characters names that sound sort of vaguely Akkadian. Now, he doesn't do this deliberately. He just thinks those sorts of names sound right for elves somehow. The reason he thinks this is because, years and years ago (in 2002), I started giving all my elf NPCs Akkadian names whenever I GMed an RPG that had elf NPCs in it. And the reason I did that in 2002 is because I heard Therion's The Siren of the Woods for the first time and really liked it (it literally completely changed my taste in music). And that song is sung in Akkadian. My friend hasn't ever listened to that song as far as I know. And yet, when he fires up TES: Skyrim and picks a name for his Altmer character, he is being influenced, indirectly, by that Therion song that he's (probably) never heard.

But yeah, I agree that there are similarities and parallels that the author didn't consciously intend. And that we should consider those separately from deliberate homages.

52
The Unholy Consult / Re: Cu'jara/Ku'jara?
« on: August 18, 2017, 03:27:27 pm »
It's probably also a product of the way Bakker has spent so damn long working on this stuff. I have notes going back over twenty years about my own created worlds (mostly settings for various RPG games I've GMed, but also background for my Warhammer and 40K armies, aborted novels and various short fiction pieces in various stages of deshabille), and there are several characters and locations with half a dozen or so variant spellings each, or even completely different names for what's clearly meant to be the same person or place, wildly inconsistent dating systems (one particular world has two timelines - one a couple of thousand years long, the other with pretty much the exact same history spread over tens of thousands of years). Any fictional setting it takes an author more than a few years to construct is going to be a frankly insane mess, is what I'm saying. Bakker has done a fantastic job of keeping it all as consistent as he has, I think.

53
You mean we were supposed to read the "what has come before" bits? :P I have to admit I've never bothered, and never felt like I missed anything by not bothering. But then I actually like Bakker's tendency to ambiguity and obscurantism and feel absolutely no need to read a summary at the start of the next novel to make sure I 'got' everything. I'd have preferred the pages wasted (from my PoV) on the WHCB summaries to be spent on more new and interesting revelations.

54
The Unholy Consult / Re: Cu'jara/Ku'jara?
« on: August 17, 2017, 09:24:56 am »
well i guess the 2nd apocalypse will be averted because for the contents of the EG to have been written, it would have been after the 2nd apocalypse in order for the writers to know about resumption and other stuff
A point I have made before. Although I think 'averted' is too strong a term. The chroniclers writing the EG might simply be members of the 144,000...

55
The Unholy Consult / Re: Zaudunyanicon Q&A
« on: August 17, 2017, 09:23:03 am »
I always thought Kellhus was an early version of the Holy Emprah and he was merely fighting the unification wars.
There are quite a few points of thematic intersection between TSA and 40K. But then there are also some between TSA and the Elder Scrolls games, and of course between TSA and Tolkien. But who can truly fathom the Darkness of cultural and philosophical influences that comes before all fictional works?

56
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 17, 2017, 09:16:15 am »
Where did Bakker mention this? Was it some Q&A session?
It's in the Nascenti thread: LINK

57
The Unholy Consult / Re: Cu'jara/Ku'jara?
« on: August 17, 2017, 08:42:48 am »
Because the EG is intended to be an in-universe artefact, the work of Earwan scholars.

58
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 16, 2017, 11:16:58 am »
I think the most interesting thing about the Psuke is that it works even though Fane's metaphysics was apparently, in Bakker's words, "the most wrong" of all the systems espoused across Earwa.

59
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 16, 2017, 11:12:26 am »
My only problem with that interpretation is that Harapior warned her not to try and cant with the Collar on after she'd proved torture didn't work on her, after all the singing and the other Nonmen saying that she tormented him. He still seemed to think the Collar would kill her if she used sorcery, even though he absolutely knew that pain had no hold over her. To me, that implies that merely being able to ignore pain shouldn't normally protect against an Agonic Collar, and that Serwa had to do something else (that Harapior could not conceive of) to defeat it.

60
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 15, 2017, 09:45:17 pm »
Thanks! I recall something like that, I'd have to check. But the only think I had on hand was TUC section that says the Mihtrûlic reputedly made it. Though, that's not really a contradiction either given his founding of it.
The implication seems to be that the Agonic Collar is not a singular artefact. Like Chorae, there are several, made by various Mihtrulic artificers. The particular one Harapior put on Serwa was made by Emilidis personally, though, and was therefore more potent. At least according to Harapior.

Didn't stop Serwa anyway, of course. It is possible Agonic Collars cannot cope with the second Inutteral of the Metagnosis. Makes me wonder if they normally work by leveraging the differential between the Utteral and Inutteral in some way. (Alternatively, if more boringly, it's possible Serwa wasn't affected simply because she can choose not to feel pain.)

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