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Messages - Blackstone

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31
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Dunyain and breeding
« on: June 08, 2016, 09:03:09 pm »
The Whale Mothers.......the thing in these books that I could really give two shits about. Is it a horror? Yes. Do I think it an utter awful existence? Yes. But, I just feel that all the uproar about it, is just another way to ridicule Bakker. I said I wasn't a fan of the Axlotl tanks, and I'm not, but I do believe it was a great way to show the evilness of the Dunyain. Other than that, I could really care less if it's possible. I mean, is shooting Dragons out your hands possible IRL? No? Didn't think so. I find it absolutely hilarious when people want to attack any author of fantasy over things like this.
Ha ha. Speak for yourself. I've been chasing the dragon...wait. I feel like you tricked me.

32
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Kiünnat and Zero
« on: June 08, 2016, 09:01:06 pm »
One thing I might add. About the 100 rocks, didn't the boy use the 100th rock to hit Serwe the Skin-Spy and send her off a cliff? Thats how I read it anyway.

I never thought of that.  Seems so obvious now you pointed it out.  The Survivor gives the boy his last stone, who uses it to finally escape the skin-spy.  So, Koringhus saw that coming? (!)  Makes me think of the whole benjuka game that Akka had with Xinemus, how he had to substitute a stone for a missing piece, and he thought it impoverished his play somehow.  Yet in this case, Koringhus saw the whole benjuka plate, and provided a lowly stone to his son to turn the tables on the Serwe skin-spy (at least to allow him to escape).  Pretty fkn cool.
I definitely agree that the boy threw the 100th rock. I don't think Koringhus saw it coming though. I read it as an almost sentimental passing of the stone, which seems very un-dunyain, however Koringhus does many un-dunyain things, especially in concern to the boy.

33
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Ishterebinth
« on: June 08, 2016, 08:16:56 pm »
On my second red, I thought it was obvious that she was about to unleash hell.  I don't think it'll be a sacrifice, either -- I think she's about to make some bodies turn cold.

How do you think she'll stay alive using sorcery with the collar on? You think the chorae will negate it somehow?
I'm of the opinion that her ability to hide inside herself will somehow shield her from the collar. I don't think she's sacrificing herself, because if the collar were capable of killing her, then she would get out about half a cant before it did. And that wouldn't be much of a dread portion.

34
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Aorsi/Dagliash
« on: June 08, 2016, 04:54:36 pm »
I read through the section where Saubon dies so quickly I didn't even catch the call back to TWP and Mengedda. Wow, how fucking utterly horrifying is that?

It's great. Chills and shivers.

Someone did bring up, I think in The Parts Appalling, that Saubon said he 'd take all damnation for one day as king ;).
Much as Hugo Chavez actually became El Presidente for life ;D

35
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: The Parts Appalling
« on: June 08, 2016, 03:42:46 pm »
I found Ishual/whale mothers, Ishtinbererith and the Outside POV's to be haunting and very dark. Though, they don't hit me the way say, Thelli.

Srancy, wow! "To make a Dunyain cry.....that's no small feat." The revelations about what Inrialitis did to her and Kel pressing upon that, truly stopped me in my tracks. I felt so bad for Thelli.

Kellhus buggering Proyas, didn't sit too well either. I think we can chalk that up to the Meat or simply as Wilshire said in another thread, to show Proyas he was being used. Anyway, I felt for the guy.
Yeah, Garet Jax mentions that Kellhus raped Proyas, which he absolutely did, but then I started drilling down on this, and it occurred to me: Kellhus is essentially raping everyone he has sex with. His intellect is so far above that of a normal human that it would always be rape even when they think they are consenting.

36
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Aorsi/Dagliash
« on: June 03, 2016, 05:37:01 pm »
Lol - I'm still very much of the opinion that Kellhus, a Dunyain, co-opting the Tekne is the goal, in and of itself. I've very few guesses beyond that and I prefer not to grasp without evidence.

Should the Metameatshield be necessary implicitly to Kellhus's plans... probably something to do with the relationship between sorcerers, specifically, and the Outside.
I'm not separating Golgotterath and the Tekne. I firmly believe he wants the Tekne...the golden coffer, and Kell's reaction to it, was enough to confirm that for me.
I can't remember the details.  But there was a point in that scene where it appeared Kellhus could read what was on the coffer.  That plus his understanding the basic concepts of radiation sickness make me believe that the Tekne is indeed a big part of his endgame.
Hmm. I assumed he had deduced what the countdown meant, but you make an interesting point. How did he know about the radiation sickness. Could it be that Inchoroi has a version of OSHA that makes them put safety warning on the outside of nukes?
As opposed to a bomb (and maybe someone mentioned this) it could be a fuel cell that they modified to explode.

37
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Cnaiur
« on: June 03, 2016, 05:01:11 pm »
I've always sort of projected Conan onto Cnaiur and can't imagine him giving a crap about any God.  I'm wondering if his motivation to lead the Scylvendi to help Golgatterath *was* the promise of sacking Ishual.  Now that it's out of the picture, it seems like as likely that he'd go against the Consult for breaking their promise.

I don't know, Aurang is usually not a liar.  Chances are Cnaiur just figured he would get to and now realizes he won't.  However, I doubt if he really cares about Proyas or the Great Ordeal, he just wants to kill Kellhus.  I doubt if he'd let Proyas stand between him and that...
Well, I'm wondering if Kellhus will even be there when the Scylvendi show up.

Cnaiur tells someone in the PoN that he believes Inrithi carry a blood-guilt for killing his god. So I do think he believes in one. I do agree that sacking Ishual was probably his price for helping the Consult, so it will be interesting to see where he goes from here now that he knows it's gone.

38
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Aorsi/Dagliash
« on: June 03, 2016, 02:12:58 pm »
Lol - I'm still very much of the opinion that Kellhus, a Dunyain, co-opting the Tekne is the goal, in and of itself. I've very few guesses beyond that and I prefer not to grasp without evidence.

Should the Metameatshield be necessary implicitly to Kellhus's plans... probably something to do with the relationship between sorcerers, specifically, and the Outside.
I'm not separating Golgotterath and the Tekne. I firmly believe he wants the Tekne...the golden coffer, and Kell's reaction to it, was enough to confirm that for me.

39
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Cnaiur
« on: June 03, 2016, 02:09:53 pm »
I think the issue at hand is less how it happens than what happens.

If we're running literary parallels, then the question is whether Cnaiur et al. are Conphas or Saubon. Regardless whether Achamian was present or not at Shimeh when the Nansur under Conphas showed up, Kellhus clearly planned on Saubon.

We've already wondered whether or not Kellhus knows about Cnaiur - which I think is a better tack. And Cnaiur is clearly an indeterminate factor; the Consult have been stringing him along, which means he's not in their pocket.

It seems pretty likely the Scylvendi are supposed to show up at Golgotterath after the Great Ordeal. The question is whether they are going to pin the Ordeal in against Golgotterath's anvil or help them...
I completely agree. And part of me thinks that Cnaiur won't be able to attack Proyas. I think Kellhus knows Cnaiur is still alive, because there would be no reason to think otherwise. Kellhus left Moe Sr. wounded and at the mercy of a chorae-wielding Cnaiur and some skin spies. I think the most probable eventuality would have been for Cnaiur's victory.
Here's a thought: suppose Kellhus is trying to close the world and establish himself as a god. The Scylvendi side with the GO to destroy Golgotterath. Kellhus becames THE god. Kellhus is now Cnaiur's god.

40
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Cnaiur
« on: June 02, 2016, 09:09:28 pm »
So, I think there are pretty good arguments for either approach to getting the Scylvendi into position to attack the GO.  As far as going around the Neleost, there would be several disadvantages, the way I see it.  One: time.  The GO is busting ass to get to Golgotterath before winter sets in.  If the Scylvendi are meant to attack them soonish, I'm not sure they could get around before deep winter hits.  They would probably be delayed until spring, which would probably be too late for Golgotterath if they were needed as reinforcements.  Two: at some point, they will encounter the denuded land that both the Horde and the GO trampled over and decimated.  They would have no food or forage, and wouldn't necessarily have a Horde of sranc to eat to sustain them.  Additionally, they would probably run into that situation as winter is setting in, making forage even more difficult.

On the other hand, Cnaiur was one of the principals in the Holy War that supervised the crossing of the entire army across the Sempis, arguably one of the greatest rivers in the Three Seas.  I also don't think there's a bridge over The Leash, but surely he, of all Scylvendi, could orchestrate such a crossing with great rafts, barges, ferries, something of the like.  He didn't seem to have any compunctions about crossing water, as he did it many times on scouting raids and such, before the Holy War actually crossed.  I imagine the Consult would employ Quya to keep the things steady and/or to propel them across the water.  Similar to Kellhus' Raft, but arguably easier since these would be floating on water, and not in the air.

I think my two cents were spent long ago.  :)
You make some really good points. Lack of forage and winter setting in would be a huge problem. On the other hand, and maybe the scale of the map is off, but as I look at it, it seems the leash is wide enough that you couldn't see across it, and that seems like a tall order for rafts packed with horses and men. They'd be fighting the tide too. Perhaps it narrows considerably in places, and in that case, I am sure they can figure something out.
I just can't imagine there is a bridge. Kuniuri was a bronze age society, and 2000 years have passed. Does the Consult have a workforce skilled enough to build a bridge that long? It seems unlikely.
If the Consult had some means of conveying the entire Scylvendi horde across the Leash, I feel like we would have seen it by now (of course we had no inkling of the nuke). And I can't imagine the nonmen ferrying them across in some way.

Improbable, yes, but not impossible.  Access to soggomant would kind of allow them to make anything damn near indestructible.  Did they bother to though?  Probably not.

They have access to it, but not an unlimited supply. It's not a metal that originated on Earwa, and they'd be unlikely to strip away so much that it weakened the Arc.


Hmm, this has me wondering, the Quya that the Consult employed, were they from Golgotterath or Ishterebinth?  Because if they were from the latter, they might all be dead now...
My assumption was both.

41
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Cnaiur
« on: June 02, 2016, 05:46:53 pm »
It looks like a strait to me and probably miles across, so I agree there's no way to ford it. And the Scylvendi are the furthest thing from sailors imaginable.

Tactically, it would make sense for them to go up and around the sea. They'd be hitting the GO in the rear as they tried to assault Golgotterath.

I was turning over posibilties in my head and while riding all the way around the Neleost is possible, it seems like it would just take too long.  But it is possible, it seemed like an awfully long distance from Sauglish to Ishual, yet Mim and Akka walked it pretty quick (no way they walked faster than a horse).

Another option is that the Consult build a bridge for them, or that one already exists that we just don't know about.  I mean, it sure does look wide though.
I just can't imagine there is a bridge. Kuniuri was a bronze age society, and 2000 years have passed. Does the Consult have a workforce skilled enough to build a bridge that long? It seems unlikely.
If the Consult had some means of conveying the entire Scylvendi horde across the Leash, I feel like we would have seen it by now (of course we had no inkling of the nuke). And I can't imagine the nonmen ferrying them across in some way.

Edit - this is being discussed in the Dagliash thread: The GO may not have a way to penetrate the Ark. If that's true, the Consult can just sit back and wait the extra time it will take the Scylvendi to get around the Neleost and smash into the Ordeal.

42
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Aorsi/Dagliash
« on: June 02, 2016, 05:42:12 pm »
A big mystery, indeed. Unless Kellhus is planning on building another Barricade, it's unclear what the Ordeal could do against the Ark. Almost makes me wonder if the whole thing is a feint to cover for something else...

This.  I was literally just thinking about the Holy War, and how it was just a vehicle to get him to Shimeh and his father.  The GO is just another vehicle, but what's the real destination this time?
I still thing Golgotterath is the end goal. I suspect he has some plan to get into the Arc, I just don't know what that is.

43
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Cnaiur
« on: June 02, 2016, 05:22:38 pm »
Any ideas on how the Scylvendi plan on making it to Golgatterath?  Or, for that matter, Akka and Mimara?  Ford the Leash?
Well, Akka and Mimara can walk the echo of the ground across the leash if she'll ditch her chorae. But if I had to guess, I'd say they'll build a raft.

I'd guess it won't be a problem for the Scylvendi. They're on horses, are skilled hunters, and don't need to worry about sranc, so they can just loop up around the sea.

That seems like it would take a really long time, even without resistance and on horseback.  The GO is on Golgotterath's doorstep.  My money is on crossing the Leash.  That being said, they'd need ships.  The Leash isn't portrayed as a 'normal' river on the maps.  I doubt there's anything close to a ford, it simply looks too wide.

It looks like a strait to me and probably miles across, so I agree there's no way to ford it. And the Scylvendi are the furthest thing from sailors imaginable.

Tactically, it would make sense for them to go up and around the sea. They'd be hitting the GO in the rear as they tried to assault Golgotterath.

44
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Aorsi/Dagliash
« on: June 02, 2016, 04:41:26 pm »
I don't think there's that many sorcerers. I'd guess ~100 per school with 6 schools.

45
TGO ARC Discussion / Re: Cnaiur
« on: June 02, 2016, 04:37:13 pm »
Any ideas on how the Scylvendi plan on making it to Golgatterath?  Or, for that matter, Akka and Mimara?  Ford the Leash?
Well, Akka and Mimara can walk the echo of the ground across the leash if she'll ditch her chorae. But if I had to guess, I'd say they'll build a raft.

I'd guess it won't be a problem for the Scylvendi. They're on horses, are skilled hunters, and don't need to worry about sranc, so they can just loop up around the sea.

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