Earwa > The Judging Eye

Reread - Questions and discussion

(1/3) > >>

Kellais:
Hi everyone,

So after signing up here i had to urge to start rereading TJE....let us see how long i can keep it up (have a lot of enticing looking books on my "to read" pile  ;D ).

Here some first thoughts and questions - or to put it another way, let me know what you think about this stuff:

- Mimara's judging eye...first appearance when she looks at Akka during their first long talk at the fire before his tower. Now, i was wondering (and maybe there already is a thread somewhere where you discussed that indepth, but i didn't see a thread-title so here it is (again?) ) ... do you think this really is something we, as readers, have to take at face value? In other words : she really has a judging eye...so Akka is really damned etc etc . What else could it be? After her musings on how Akka and herself have suffered a lot in this life, and Akka more or less confessing that he is most probably mad...what if Mimara is just...well, mad? Maybe she hallucinates that stuff. Any theories and ideas on this? It just got me thinking...maybe i'm paranoid but i can't belief that it is what is says on the tin, so to speak  ;) Or is that precisely what Scott wants us to think and therefor this is exactly how it is... ?! Now you see where this is going right...you could start thinking in circles like that and do that ad infinitum and ad absurdum ... so, let me have it.

- This goes a bit in the same direction but i hope you keep reading  ;) The vision of Psatma Nannaferi at the beginning of the book...where she thinks the goddess herself visits her...do you guys think that this is for real? I mean are the gods in Scott's world real? If they are, do you think they interfere that directly? If not, what is happening here? Is the old priestess just nuts? Or are there darker schemes at work. I could totally see the consult behind this...trying everything to oppose Kellhus, even if they have to play a ruse like this instead of killing him directly.

These two scenes just made me very curious as to how much the reader can take at face value in this trilogy and how much it is the author trying to mislead us. On the one hand i find this very stimulating, on the other it can also be very frustrating  ;D My mind just does not stop thinking about the many possibilities that could be...i'm almost doing a thousandfold thought here  ;D

Anyway, i hope this gives us something to talk about. I'm kind of new here but i was a-little-bit-active on the old three seas forums a long time ago. I'm trying to get back in the saddle  ;)
Maybe this kicks off other discussions on the topic of Bakker's Earwa-work which i think are a bit slow atm.

Wilshire:
At this point, without even a semblance of any kind of conclusion, what you take at face value is entirely up to you. There is so much ambiguity, and so little information, that you can probably find evidence to support any theory if you look hard enough.

I tend to use TJE as an anchor. I think its one of the few things that actually shows the world as it is, and that Mimara is something close to an unbiased POV. That said, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to to find out that anything I believe is wrong.

Hows this for crazy:
Maybe the gods are an Inchoroi genetic experiment gone awry? Perhaps they accidentally created the means of their own damnation (the Gods) and have spent millennium running from their own creation. A creation that far surpassed the creator, driving them out and pursuing them across time and space. Eventually the Inchoroi found a way to mask themselves, body and mind, but alas, not their souls.
The Gods finally found the Inchoroi when 1000's of souls showed up as they crashed into Earwa. Now they have focused their energy onto the world, using humans to hunt down their elusive prey.


Dune tangent:
(click to show/hide) An unlikely union of the Tleilaxu and Bene Gesserit that could create their own super children: the Honored Matra and the perfect face-dancers. So perfect they become indistinguishable from their creators, eventually they destroying their fathers and chased their Mothers  back to the void from whence they came. Back to the old empire....
Anyways, back to your post: I had to eventually cross off possibilities from the list. Trying to consider every ambiguity got too difficult, so I've picked a set of variables and will run with them until new info is presented, or someone convinces me to change my mind. Thats why this forum is awesome. It lets people interact and discuss their own views which may be entirely hidden to others because of the things they have long since discarded as wrong.

Somnambulist:

--- Quote from: Kellais on August 13, 2013, 04:20:13 pm ---- Mimara's judging eye...first appearance when she looks at Akka during their first long talk at the fire before his tower. Now, i was wondering (and maybe there already is a thread somewhere where you discussed that indepth, but i didn't see a thread-title so here it is (again?) ) ... do you think this really is something we, as readers, have to take at face value? In other words : she really has a judging eye...so Akka is really damned etc etc . What else could it be? After her musings on how Akka and herself have suffered a lot in this life, and Akka more or less confessing that he is most probably mad...what if Mimara is just...well, mad? Maybe she hallucinates that stuff. Any theories and ideas on this? It just got me thinking...maybe i'm paranoid but i can't belief that it is what is says on the tin, so to speak  ;) Or is that precisely what Scott wants us to think and therefor this is exactly how it is... ?! Now you see where this is going right...you could start thinking in circles like that and do that ad infinitum and ad absurdum ... so, let me have it.

--- End quote ---

This is something I've been thinking about lately, as well.  I'm starting to lean in the direction that the possessors of the Judging Eye are, in fact, casting judgment and not just seeing judgment.  There's a passage in WLW (in the infamous Library dream by Achamian) wherein the statement is made that reality is based on the principle of 'watcher and watched,' or something to that effect.  To me, in regards to Earwa, that means reality is subjective to the watcher, and their own preconceptions of what reality is.  Mimara grew up in the Three Seas where sorcerers are damned, and she was sold to a brothel where men abused her.  What could be worse in her mind than a male sorcerer?  Thus, she sees Achamian as this blasted, damned wreck when the eye opens, 'confirming' her own bias.  This could go a ways to explaining the encounter with the wight in Cil-Aujas when she proclaims that she guards the gates (not sure how just yet, but it could be something).  Like she's some kind of moral compass for the world.

Another thought occurs to me as I'm writing this.  RSB uses a lot of religious metaphors from our own world to flesh out his (obviously).  What if this is another one?  The meek shall inherit the earth.  Mimara has been so wronged in her life that she now possesses the ultimate tool of judgement, and reality is as she sees it, damning all those who have wronged her.

And then there's the actual name of the judgement, the Judging Eye.  Who is judging if not the possessor?  It could be the One God, judging through the possessor of the Eye, but now I'm just spinning myself into circles, like you said.   :o

Wilshire:
By your own reasoning, the reason that she is able to defeat the wight is because she proclaims it defeated. It said that "no one guards the gate" (or something to that affect), and she replies that she is now the guardian. Like a schoolman shaping reality to his whim, except the Eye goes far deeper.

Somnambulist:
I think that might be where I was going with that, or thereabouts.  My apologies, the thought came to me while at work, so I wasn't sure I presented the theory very well.  Cheers, Wilshire. :)

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page