The Second Apocalypse
Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The White-Luck Warrior => Topic started by: What Came Before on May 28, 2013, 04:06:23 pm
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I find that we have a discussions on various heroes of the book and often argue whther he/she will be the mjor player or not (like Iyokus or Meppa). Why not list them?
Primary players
Kellhus
Akka
Esmenet
White Luck
Mimara
Sorweel
Kelmomas
Aurang/Aurax/Sheonara
Seswatha/Nay Cayuti
Serwe
Dunyain leader to be discovered
Nonmen leader of Isterbinth
Mek?
Secondary Cast
Moenghus
The 2nd son of Kelhus - General whatshisname
Meppa
Fanayal
Proyas
Psatma Nannaferi
Gods?
Third Line
Iyokus
Saccarees
Storks :-)
Please add or move around the names as you please.
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Lol... hm... Firstly, I think Moenghus the Elder and Moenghus the Younger both have roles to play.
Also, how can you relegate an entire plot-line to Secondary :P? ... whatever is going on at Momemn is not incidental to the stories - I highly doubt it is a take-it or leave-it plot.
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I was also looking at planetary/story impact and also name per page appearance, kind off.
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Lol, I think that both of those guidelines would reflect Bakker's Layers of Revelation... Maybe we should reverse your list ;)?
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With Storks on top then :-)
Kind of makes sense!!! If you think about it. Since No-God is in fact warring against Storks.
As we know No-God stops the babies being born and Storks primary role is to deliver the babies !!!
Both are in deadly conflict and are attempting hostile takeover of each others Business Model :-)
This is in fact a revelation.
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Haha! +1 for Thoughts, coobek.
I never thought about the connection between Storks and Birth... classic.
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The old European 'storks delivering babies' myth perhaps comes originally from the Egyptians, for whom the stork represented the human soul (more correctly, the Ba, that part of the many-aspected Egyptian soul that represented 'personality' or the uniqueness of the individual) as it entered or left the body.
There's another variation (in Eastern Europe IIRC) where storks don't bring souls to the newborn, but rather steal them, resulting in the child being stillborn.
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Damnit, Duskweaver - by extension Bakker!
How much does he know?!
Lol, +1 on Thoughts, Duskweaver.
I would hazard from the text that he's riffing off the Egyptian myth - I really think there is something to the idea of proportionate souls. But they both provide such tasteful ambiguity.
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Also, the Egyptians sometimes (but not always) depicted the stork-as-human-soul with a tiny human head.
Now, what tiny-human-headed bird-things might be found following groups of Sranc around? Hmm...
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Lol... Duskweaver, I enjoy your perspective immensely.
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Lol... Duskweaver, I enjoy your perspective immensely.
I second this... Duskweaver, come back to us.
Also, do we think the Sarl still has a 'major' role to play? I know MG and myself like to think so.
Can't forget Leweth either.
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Sarl's been following Akka and Mim all the way to Ishual. Since he's currently using the captain's head as a cock-holster, the sranc have been confusing him for one of their own and leaving him alone.
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SARL IS DUNYAIN!!!!
Remember that bit in TTT where Cnaiur is reminiscing about the time that Akka told him that the souls were like beads of water and when they burst, the Outside leaked in? SARL SARL SARL
Also, I second GJ's second of Madness comment about Duskweaver--never learned so much about stork myths so fast.
@Wic - heck yeah! Sarl might find a nice home with a little sranc clan and finally settle down :)
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Whether you meant Serwe or Serwa in the OP, I think they're a secondary player, not a primary. Kellhus' children, sans Inrilatas and Kelmomas/Samarmas, are effectively just extensions of their father. Much like the entire Great Ordeal. They are no true Dunyain. Also I don't think you can list Kelmomas without also listing Samarmas. They're inseperable. Literally.
I'd also boost Psatma Nanneferi to primary player. She's basically Yatwer's main agent on Earwa, and was vital in bringing the White-Luck Warrior into creation. She may (or may not, we'll see) even being manipulating Fanayal. Someone else ultimately moves her (that being Yatwer) but the connection is by necessity only occasional and tenuous due to Yatwer being stuck in the Outside. She's even had a number of point-of-view chapters. If Esmenet and Sorweel are primary players, then so is Psatma Nanneferi.
Incidentally, Psatma is also a strong female character that's never brought up in arguments that the series has none of such and is inherently misogynist. I suppose it's because she's an antagonist instead of a protagonist.
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I suppose it's because she's an antagonist instead of a protagonist.
I think we may get some big reversals on antagonist/protagonist before its all said and done.
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i'm a bit disappointed that we haven't heard anything from iyokus yet--bakker is saving all of his secrets? would he be able to narrate kellhus' trip to the outside?
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Yeah I hope for some old-man badassery from Iyokus. He's like 115 or something right?
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Just to be annoying, I'll add Nin'Janjin to the list.
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There's no way Iyokus doesn't come into play later. Nin'janjin is a good possibility, but I could see him having been historically significant beyond what we know (and possibly is dead), but the circumstances bar us from learning about it at this point because it's spoilery or something.
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Yeah I hope for some old-man badassery from Iyokus. He's like 115 or something right?
what do you bet that Kellhus does some super meta-daimos and the scene is written from Proyas' pov while he listens to Iyokus explain it?
Nin must return! still horribly young! the FIRST erratic?!?