Quote from: Heavenfall on July 12, 2017, 01:16:33 pm

I loved the world-building and the individual journeys that everyone other-than-Kellhus were on, but at the same time it still annoys me that they were not important at all. The Prince of Nothing series at least had an incredible solution where all strands of story were collected and unified to form a truly awesome moment. As much as insignificant main characters can have their own pivotal moments I still expect them to matter to the larger story.

In a way I'm reminded of the movie "No country for old men" where the story arcs are purposefully disjointed at the end (the veteran cop never finds the bad guy). But there we have an almost fourth-wall-breaking moment where one character grudgingly admits to just being confused and feeling disconnected from the world at large. It becomes a commentary on how the world doesn't necessarily adapt to the evolution of the story. I didn't get that feeling here.

We're on the same page. PoN seemed to make better use of its narrative arcs with an explosion of convergence both in each book and through to the end and final scene. TUC suffers from not having that same kind of coherence - little is done to make it all fit together in a satisfying way - at least compared to TTT.
I still loved TUC and I think it ended exactly as the story demanded, but there could have been better execution. Besides, I'm bias as well, been playing in this game too long to make objective judgments.

Wasn't that Bakker's point from the beginning?  The anti-trope fantasy epic?  There is no satisfying end.  Nothing is wrapped up neatly.  It's the anti-LotR.  Everything just falls apart.

I tend to think you are correct, H, in that Ark was ensouled.  It had descended upon worlds without number, reducing their populations to 144,00 in an attempt to disrupt the circuit of souls, right?  Since the Sarcophagus is a prosthesis of Ark, it would follow that, on those other worlds, Ark's soul powered it.  When it crashed on Earwa, it 'died' and whatever remnant of the Holy Swarm that was left didn't know how to power up the Sarcophagus.  Then Shae figured out that it needed a soul to achieve System Initiation.

Or, maybe Ark just used any old being from whatever planet they were on, and it could help the process along.  Because it died on Earwa, though, the Sarcophagus needed a 'special' being to activate it.  Like, a person with two souls...

I'm a reductionist at heart

Isiramulis is the sword's proper name, the others are monikers it has earned over time (it was known by many different names).  It was wielded by an ursranc, who was killed by Mirshoa's gang.  Then Mirshoa picked it up, and used it to defeat the Erratic Tall Nonman.  But he was subsequently eaten by Skuthula (the passage specifically says Mirshoa's right forearm, assumedly sword arm, falls to the ground).  That left the sword laying there until Kayutas found it while trying to get past the Intrinsic Gate.  He then gives it to Serwa.  It's the same sword, specifically named Isiramulis each time, it just changed hands a few times in a relatively short period of time.

Could be the suspicion of her complicity in NC's death only came later, after the second round of poisoning took place with the other victim.

Lol - I admit to going a little loopy if I try to follow for too long because its thought is alien to me. Why does it bother you, Som?

I generally find so-called 'inspirational' posters/signs/what-have-you puerile at best. Not that I'm above inspiration at all.  Forced inspiration rubs my pessimism the wrong way.  I prefer to take my inspiration unlooked for, unexpected, not manufactured.  These AI-generated quotes, coupled with the random unrelated images, pander too much to my negativity.  Takes me in the opposite direction.  I guess you could say they no-inspire me

Just throwing this out there:  the Dunyain are not above murder.  They kill defectives, or send them to the unmasking room, or whatever else.  If Moe came back to them with knowledge or experience enough to warrant worry within the general Dunyain ranks, why not just kill him?  They are many, he is one.  Shouldn't be a problem, right?  This raises two possibilities, in my mind.

1) The Dunyain truly believed themselves to be the last remaining vestige of humanity in the world, secluded as they were.  So, in effect, they believed they were killing him by exiling him.  How long could he survive?  There's nothing out there, no other people, no women to procreate with, no way for himself, alone, to assault Ishual to 'pollute' them further.  He had become a danger to them, specifically, because of the knowledge he had gained while outside Ishual.  They weren't afraid he'd tell anyone about them, because they truly believed there was no one else.  His perspective was the danger.  Maybe he 'broke' like Kellhus did when he left Ishual.

or

2) Moenghus had become powerful in a way the Dunyain did not understand.  Meaning either he had learned something that could overcome multiple Dunyain, or he made them believe he had learned something that could overcome multiple Dunyain.  Whatever the case, the result would have been the same: exile rather than risk further losses/corruption/whatever.  Which then leads to (1) above anyway.  Fine, exile him, he'll die anyway.

I don't really think he learned sorcery or had some tekne or some other bullshit like (2) might imply.  I lean heavily toward the first option.  He'd been corrupted to the point where the other Dunyain felt his presence could no longer be tolerated for fear of derailing their mission.  Simple as that.  The Shortest Path is exile: he's gone and no-one had to die to try to subdue or kill him outright.  Problem solved.

Until the dreams...

Wow.

I did ask Scott to clarify a few things. Illisseru I think is closer to the sea but still in the mountains, since they actually had ships (although they could have taken them downriver). Siol I think is right in the middle and underneath the centre of the Northern Kayarsus, although the precise location is anyone's guess (Scott had a map of the First Age but apparently couldn't get it into the book).

No plot spoilers, but a fresh backstory revelation from TUC glossary:

(click to show/hide)

It's pretty clear that Siol is the location of the Gates of Thayant, and the Breaking of the Gates refers to the Four Tribes smashing their way into Siol via the eastern passes. Siol was their gateway into Earwa.

Ok, I'll note those changes for next time.  Let me know if you get any notes from Scott.