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Messages - Walter

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Walter and Redeagl on TUC...
« on: June 09, 2017, 04:11:27 pm »
Stephen R Donaldson's books are some of my favorite, and I'd never turn down a Joe Abercrombie (although, really I think he's gone downhill since The First Law).  I enjoyed some of the earlier Malazan books, but ultimately fell out of love with the series.  I read the Wheel of Time and dug it, actually thought Sanderson's stuff at the end was an improvement over Robert Jordan's later work.  I like Sanderson's current series, but never could get into his superhero stuff.

In general, I'm generally a sucker for dark fantasy stuff.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Walter and Redeagl on TUC...
« on: June 09, 2017, 03:59:10 pm »
Make sure you read TUC's glossary after the book itself.  There are some references to stuff in TUC in there.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Walter and Redeagl on TUC...
« on: June 09, 2017, 03:56:21 pm »
The 'What Has Gone Before' sections are usually enough, but I'm super invested in these books so I like the complete read throughs.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Walter and Redeagl on TUC...
« on: June 09, 2017, 03:23:28 pm »
@Hiro 3:

Yeah, I did a reread of the whole series reading up to this, finishing TGO the night before my copy arrived, so everything was fresh in my mind.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Walter and Redeagl on TUC...
« on: June 09, 2017, 03:22:12 pm »
Alright, overall thoughts: [non spoilery for anything specific in book, but any discussion of pacing, etc. will yield pseudo spoilers if you read into em.  Read at own risk]

1: Stylistically this is most similar to TTT.  We are finally getting to the fireworks factory.
2: It is RSB at his Bakker-est, if that makes any sense.  If you dug the other books in spite of the Bakkerisms, this will be rough for you.  If you dug them FOR his particular quirks, then this is right up your alley.
3: This is now my favorite Bakker book, previously TWP was the one I liked most.
4: Be careful about spoilers.  There are a lot of twists and turns in the plot that are amazing when they happen with no warnings.

General Earwa / Re: Why did Moë really leave Ishuäl?
« on: June 06, 2017, 03:32:07 pm »
I tend to agree with the 'there is less here than we think' school of thought.  Like, I think we can take the books at face value.

Moe was sent out after the Sranc contamination, told to deal with stuff, then kill himself.

He ends up with the Ceshaurim, story continues as we know from there.

In terms of being angelic, Mimara is the only one we've seen ever described as being holy, right?

What's up with anarcane ground?

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Unholy Consult Giveaway
« on: May 25, 2017, 07:44:54 pm »
Kellhus undergoes the Inverse Fire, or whatever the ritual is that grants the Consult their visions of damnation.  He is undaunted, there is a head on a pole behind him.

The Thousandfold Thought / Luck or Cunning?
« on: May 11, 2017, 01:45:05 pm »
So, at the climax of TTT, Kellhus is down in the depths with his father.  The Holy War is locked in its ultimate clash with Fanayal's final army.  The Scarlet Spires and the Cishaurim are annihilating one another.

And Conphas is coming up behind the Holy War with a fresh army, and the Imperial Saik.

As we all know, they blunder across Achamanian, and then Saubon rolls up in the confusion and kills Conphas, taking command of the army (and the Saik), and bringing them in on the side of the Holy War.

Fundamentally, this is the conclusion of the battle, as the Saik are the only School left on the field, and they annihilate the Fanim just as they did the Scylvendri at Kiyuth.

The thing I want to point out is...this seems like total luck.

Like, Conphas's downfall is the result of several elements in sequence, each seemingly unconnected to Kellhus's machinations.
1: He splits the Saik up, leaving them unable to defeat a Mandate Schoolman.
2: Akka (owing to his feud with Iyokus) ends up behind the main battle, in prime position to spy the incoming Nansur force and take them on
3: Saubon rolls up immediately after Akka starts throwing down.

If any of those things go differently, the whole thing fails.
If Conphas has the Saik gathered together then they murder Akka, then Saubon.
If Akka isn't present then the Grandmaster of the Saik kills Saubon
If Saubon shows up earlier then the Grandmaster kills him

If Conphas is still in control of the Imperial force then the Holy War is massacred, as a School and an army show up behind it.  That leaves Kellhus in a position where conquering the Three Seas seems like a pipe dream, as he is the loathed False Prophet who led the Holy War to damnation, defeat, and death.

So, do y'all think that Kellhus planned the foiling of Conphas and the suborning of his army, or do you think that was just a lucky break (ie: Kellhus doesn't know anything about the Nansur, his plan was just Holy War > Fanim, with him finishing off any Cishaurim who happened to survive)?

The Unholy Consult / Re: Crazy speculation only
« on: May 05, 2017, 08:08:23 pm »
Feels like we are going to get a 'Star Wars' kind of ending, with a big army battle (outside Golglutterath), while much more personal stuff goes down on the inside.

Random hunch: Kellhus is going to experience the Inverse Fire that the Consult use to initiate them with the experience of damnation.

In terms of damnation, stuff we know:

Saubon was damned after all, despite being the most fervent of the Zaodunyani.
The Captain, another pious Zaodunyani was also damned when Mimara looked at him with the Judging Eye.

So it looks like Kellhus-ism, or whatever we want to call the belief system that Saubon and Lord Kosoter shared, does not guide you to salvation.

Similarly, Mimara's Gaze has confirmed that the Dunyain's blasphemous quest to usurp the Absolute has rendered them utterly damned.

 The other 3 belief systems that might save (which Mimara hasn't confirmed as doomed) one seem to be:
1: Orthodox Inrithism.  This is basically praising the strongest Ciphrangs and hoping that they protect your soul after you die.  This is what Psatma's talking about when she says that Yatwer will honor those who Give.

I tend to be skeptical as to this working.  The one chapter opener about the sighs in heaven and the screams in hell being the same strikes me as a condemnation of this view.  I think Yatwer/Gilgaol eat their most fervent worshipers just like the lesser Ciphrangs eat the nonbelievers.

2: Fanimry:  The Fanim worship the sum of the Gods, Kellhus's god-shaped-soul, but rendered Outside rather than Inside.  Placing their faith in this abstract 'Solitary God' rather than any particular Ciphrang.

It doesn't feel like this works either.  Fanim seem like basically immature Dunyain.  Presumably their souls are set upon by the Ciphrangs when they die.

3: Ancestor Worship:  Likaro's people trust their revered ancestors to intercede with the Hundred, thereby preserving their souls.  It feels like in order for that to work their ancestors would have to have some kind of pull on the Outside, but everyone outside seems to be being eaten by Ciphrangs. 

I'm not super enthused about this prospect either.

My take on the best course of action for a native of Earwa is to either:
A: be a fervent Orthodox devotee of one particular God (hope Pstama's right that the Hundred cherish their most fervent supporters)
B: Be an absolute maniac like Cnaiur and become a Ciphrang on death.

The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Kelmomas Skills
« on: August 31, 2016, 03:13:06 pm »
To me, this is the central question of The Great Ordeal.

Why does WLW's destiny get broken by Kelmomas?

We know how WLW's destiny works in general.  The Gods are timeless.  Everything is one, in every respect, as Koringhus says.  The Gods don't just watch out of every eye, they do so all throughout time.  So Yatwer can perfectly aim WLW at Kellhus.

Similarly, it is pretty clear what saves Kellhus.  Kelmomas cries out, which makes him turn, and the world suddenly takes a path not forseen by Yatwer. can that be?  It isn't that Yatwer is IN the present, forseeing the future.  There is no present, past or future for beings of the Outside, right?  They do not "happen, all at once", as Psatma says.  Whatever ends up happening, Yatwer should be seeing it even as it does so (cue WLW seeing himself ahead of and behind himself, etc).

We know that the Hundred are blind to certain entities (sentience without soul and all.  They can't look out their eyes.)  But how does that work, exactly?

If a Skin Spy (or other entity the Gods are blind to) kills someone, what exactly happens there, in the God's eyes?  Do they just forsee the person dying with no cause?  Or do they forsee them living , and then become confused when they die?  That is, in the past, when the No God's soulless armies were destroying cities...did the Hundred not understand why the people were dying...or did they not even understand that they were dying ? How deep does the blindness run?

Like, if Yatwer and friends have a view of the whole timeline that is broken any time soulless entities intrude upon should be gibberish by now.  Populated by the time-ghosts of those who weren't supposed to have died and their descendants.  So it seems like they have to be able to see at least the second order effects of the actions of things that they are blind to.

But if that's the case, then why didn't she see Kellhus reacting to Kelmomas's scream?  Kellhus is reacting to something that she can't see...but she should still see him, right? I mean, his whole reign is a reaction to things she can't see.  The Sranc/Inchoroi nuke is what prompted his flight to Momas, but she didn't have any trouble knowing he'd be there.

The only thing that makes sense, to me, is if Yatwer's blindness to Kelmomas (or, really, Samarmas.  WLW has no trouble interacting with Thelli, so it is clearly capable of dealing with Dunyain children in the general sense) is of a different kind than her blindness to Skin Spies.  But that seems absurdly contrived?  Two kinds of metaphysical blind spot?  No author would do that.  You couldn't rely on the reader to keep track.

So I must have gone off course somewhere.  Best guess remains that Samarmas muddles Kelmomas's POV enough that looking out his eyes doesn't work right, so Yatwer can account for him in a general sense (Thelli is going to his room to confront him, so WLW needs to go there...), but not in a specific, clutch situation.

The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
« on: August 15, 2016, 08:28:58 pm »
Curse Likaro!

TGO ARC Discussion / Re: TGO Suicides
« on: June 28, 2016, 08:17:11 pm »
She looked upon him with the Judging eye.  In the same way that she could see Galian's entire life story she was able to entirely comprehend Koringus.  The Judging Eye knows the truth of him entire and in real time, rather than the Dunyain technique of seeing people as a series of competing fractions.

It's the same thing that Kellhus is mimicing when he is seducing Esmenet/the Holy War, and he says peoples thoughts as they say them.  They have an impression that they look out his eyes.  That everyone is the same person.  The Judging Eye is actually capable of that.

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