[TGO SPOILERS] The Parts Appalling

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Madness

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« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2016, 07:20:55 pm »
I'm sure there's so much more but I'm reeling a bit. Now to read all the existing discussion.

Welcome back, Onrack :)!

Quote
I was just curious to know what parts of the book all of you found to be the most disturbing.

Bakker's repeated use...of ellipses...and italics to emphasize profundity.

Ha! There were a couple of moments where that got to me too. Loads of chapters ending on dramatic, short sentences

"And we are the bread" dun Dun DUN

I don't think that is "new" of Bakker's style. He's been ending on dramatic short sentences since very early on, if not all through ;).
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Onrack

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« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2016, 07:30:41 pm »
Thank you. Took forever for my book order to arrive, thought I'd never get to discuss it.

True, it just seemed especially dramatic this time around. It's probably a function of being closer to the endgame, more dramatic revelations to uh, reveal. And hey, it works/

Madness

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« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2016, 07:52:05 pm »
Thank you. Took forever for my book order to arrive, thought I'd never get to discuss it.

Glad you did, Onrack.

Lol - though, hats off for Canada (may or may not have physical copies on shelves at all) and UK (whom don't get an official release until Sep 29th - and damn am I excited for cover art that's not the fucking face).
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Onrack

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« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2016, 09:47:06 pm »
It's a shame, the part of the cover art that isn't that generic face is pretty good. If they had just some sort of medieval tableaux in it's place, or some other illustration, it would be fine. Probably wouldn't cost much more either.

Triskele

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« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2016, 02:33:33 am »
We're getting an Inchie face on The Unholy Consult, right?

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2016, 05:22:13 pm »
The whale-mothers thing reminded me a lot of daemoncubala from Warhammer 40k; it sorta amused me, because me and a friend had this recurring joke that Bakker should be the one to write 40k literature.

I wish Duskweaver was still a frequent poster, may he return sooner rather than later. He was another poster who constantly noted analogues between Warhammer 40K and Earwa. I've never heard Bakker mention it but it makes sense its something he's been exposed to in his life of dungeon mastering.

Use your influence and get him to write for the Black Library.  Paul Kearney has written one Space Marine book already.  Bakker MUST write Space Marines, it is imperative.
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2016, 05:23:25 pm »
- the rape of Proyas. It was written so ambiguously - like Bakker was trying to trick us - that I wasn't even sure it physically happened until he told Saubon. And the fact that Kellhus did it not out of a sexual need but as a way to challenge Saubon - not Proyas - makes it even more twisted somehow.
Got some major Inchoroi vibes from this, too. They seem to enjoy sodomizing people.

They enjoy horrifying people I think, the specific manner of act is just secondary to that (though a sexual component is always present too).  In the case of someone who craved sodomy they would probably find another perversion instead.
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2016, 05:27:48 pm »
I suppose it makes sense that the purely pragmatical Dunyain would regard women as breeding tools, but even then, I can't help but wonder if the whale mothers were just as smart as the men - untapped potential, maybe.

They would have to be smart to avoid dysgenic effects from breeding. As for their potential, the Dunyain value the Self-Moving Soul above all else, and are not concerned overly with the development and fulfillment of other, lesser persons except as stepping stones along that path.

Which makes one wonder what they considered the SMS to consist of if they still thought themselves inadequate.  Kellhus is a prodigy even among Dunyain and Koringhus is said to have "confounded the elders with his gifts" - what was needed beyond that? Did the Dunyain somehow lose sight of their goal? By what measure could such people as these still regard themselves as inadequate?
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

JRControl

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« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2016, 06:59:33 pm »
“But measure,” the slave replies, “is not something accomplished and then forgotten, Skiötha. Old measure is merely grounds for the new. Measure is unceasing.”

Aim for ever smaller fractions of the integral, I guess. Endless task really.
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« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2016, 07:10:23 pm »
Did the Dunyain somehow lose sight of their goal? By what measure could such people as these still regard themselves as inadequate?

Didn't so much lose sight, as was just plain out wrong from the start. Doesn't Koringhus tell us as much, and Kellhus, and Moe? By erasing history and hiding the fact of sorcery, the were essentially lying to themselves. The were keeping key ingredients need to obtain a SMS out of the equation.
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« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2016, 08:01:03 pm »
I like the rationalizations though of sorcery possibly being a low hanging fruit that limited the overall focus of the goal, because it certainly crossed my mind in a similar fashion.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

Onrack

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« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2016, 09:05:46 pm »
- the rape of Proyas. It was written so ambiguously - like Bakker was trying to trick us - that I wasn't even sure it physically happened until he told Saubon. And the fact that Kellhus did it not out of a sexual need but as a way to challenge Saubon - not Proyas - makes it even more twisted somehow.
Got some major Inchoroi vibes from this, too. They seem to enjoy sodomizing people.

They enjoy horrifying people I think, the specific manner of act is just secondary to that (though a sexual component is always present too).  In the case of someone who craved sodomy they would probably find another perversion instead.
So is the whole "We're a race of lovers" thing just a joke on their parts?

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2016, 03:47:10 pm »
- the rape of Proyas. It was written so ambiguously - like Bakker was trying to trick us - that I wasn't even sure it physically happened until he told Saubon. And the fact that Kellhus did it not out of a sexual need but as a way to challenge Saubon - not Proyas - makes it even more twisted somehow.
Got some major Inchoroi vibes from this, too. They seem to enjoy sodomizing people.

They enjoy horrifying people I think, the specific manner of act is just secondary to that (though a sexual component is always present too).  In the case of someone who craved sodomy they would probably find another perversion instead.
So is the whole "We're a race of lovers" thing just a joke on their parts?

They are probably deluded enough to think that they are providing people with some sort of liberation, you tend to see that kind of thing among hedonists.  Their degeneracy has warped their minds.
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2016, 03:48:00 pm »
Did the Dunyain somehow lose sight of their goal? By what measure could such people as these still regard themselves as inadequate?

Didn't so much lose sight, as was just plain out wrong from the start. Doesn't Koringhus tell us as much, and Kellhus, and Moe? By erasing history and hiding the fact of sorcery, the were essentially lying to themselves. The were keeping key ingredients need to obtain a SMS out of the equation.

Huh. Sorcery, as a key component of the SMS?  Interesting.  What role might Cants of Compulsion play in achieving the SMS? This is interesting to ponder on, thank you.
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

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« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2016, 04:20:05 pm »
Huh. Sorcery, as a key component of the SMS?  Interesting.  What role might Cants of Compulsion play in achieving the SMS? This is interesting to ponder on, thank you.

I don't think that is quite on the right track.  Keep in mind Koringhus is wrong on at least one thing, that The Judging Eye is the work of sorcery.  It isn't.  It's just like Bakker told us about Wracu's fire breathing.  It is neither mundane nor sorcerous.

As such, no, sorcery isn't needed to become self-moving.  However, denying or simply being ignorant of it's existence is a real detriment to understanding The Absolute.  This is because being unaware of the Outside means you cannot be fully aware of the effect it would have on you, via (or perhaps as) The Darkness.  The Dunyain were wrong in thinking that the Logos encompasses all.  It doesn't, the Outside leaks in both through souls and through topoi and who knows where else.
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