[TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books

  • 110 Replies
  • 37526 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elju

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
« on: July 18, 2017, 05:21:41 pm »
First time poster, long time reader.

I've seen some people express disappointment that the Inchoroi were vanquished so easily by the Dunyain.

That's understandable, given that they were set up as the books primary antagonists, but isn't there evidence in TUC that the Inchoroi we've been exposed to were just one small segment of the population? The warrior Inchoroi, we're told, acted at the behest of the Ark.

Isn't it conceivable that in future books we'll meet representatives from the upper classes of Inchoroi society? This seems especially likely if the No-God is successful in drastically reducing the number of souls in Earwa.

Perhaps the Ark's creators are extinct or they died along with the Ark, but it also seems possible that the Ark was sent out on a mission by a group of ruler Inchoroi. Since the Earwa team was unsuccessful, there was no reason for them to come to Erwa. Now that the Great Ordeal has been overcome, the Nonmen are virtually destroyed, and the sorcerous might of humans has been annihilated these upper-caste Inchoroi may come to claim this world as theirs.

While Aurang and Aurax were manipulated into submission within a short period of time, there's no reason to think that the intellectual wing of Inchoroi society would be so easily subdued.

 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 05:45:58 pm by Elju »

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2893
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 05:23:50 pm »
Added the TUC Spoiler tag for your topic.

Carry on.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Elju

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 05:26:54 pm »
Oops. Sorry about that! I've been away and wasn't aware they were still being used.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2893
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 05:34:09 pm »
Oops. Sorry about that! I've been away and wasn't aware they were still being used.

Not a problem, we are still using them in topic titles only.

As for the topic itself, I don't think that those who made the Ark, aka the Progenitors, would really be all that analogous to the Inchoroi themselves, except in pretty superficial ways.  The Inchoroi are just their manufactured servents, just like Sranc are to Inchoroi.

In actuality, I think the Inchoroi we see, which is basically only Aurang, is also a distorted and atypical Inchoroi of even the few who were on Eärwa.  Aurang purposely designed himself, or was designed by Aurax, et al. to be what we see.  Arkfall era Inchoroi were much different, probably typified by how Sil and early-day Aurang are described, physical brutes.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5275
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 05:36:32 pm »
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Elju.

Thanks for registering with an obvious username ;).

On topic, the Inchoroi we see, as per Bakker's second half of his WLW interview, are of the last surviving six since "species-wide grafts" take the rest.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Elju

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 05:45:10 pm »
That's true H, the Progenitors wouldn't likely be anything like the Inchoroi, but does that rule out them showing up in later books? If they crafted the Ark and maybe the warrior Inchoroi we've seen, don't know we know at least that they're invested in interstellar travel?

And thanks Madness, I hadn't seen that interview. Same question though: all the Inchoroi on Earwa may be dead, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't an off-world contingent of Inchoroi creators out there somewhere, right?

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2893
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 05:50:25 pm »
That's true H, the Progenitors wouldn't likely be anything like the Inchoroi, but does that rule out them showing up in later books? If they crafted the Ark and maybe the warrior Inchoroi we've seen, don't know we know at least that they're invested in interstellar travel?

And thanks Madness, I hadn't seen that interview. Same question though: all the Inchoroi on Earwa may be dead, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't an off-world contingent of Inchoroi creators out there somewhere, right?

Nothing precludes any of that, unless my speculation in the other thread about the Ark itself is true and the Progenetor's souls are what was originally inside the No-God apparatus and were the intelligence that sustained the Ark.

However, in any case, what comes next is a more "human" story, I'd think.  The Inchoroi are gone, the Nonmen are basically gone, and humans are left to try to pick up the pieces.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5275
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 05:55:19 pm »
No worries, Elju. Also, Part 1 and the Interviews & Articles thread.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

themerchant

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Captain Slogger
  • Posts: 953
    • View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 06:23:05 pm »
The Progenitors will be really old. The Inchoroi are ancient and they've presumably been travelling very fast, so relative to the inchoroi much more time has passed for the progenitors, unless they're also traveling really fast, in some sort of gravity well etc.


 

Elju

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 06:36:29 pm »
Interesting point about the Progenitors' age! There's a good chance H is right and they died along with the Ark, but if they're capable of that sort of technology they may have a backup plan.

I like the idea that the subsequent stories will be more human, but I think one reason these books have worked so well is that they articulate, in a compelling way, the myriad intersections of the human and non-human. It's hard to imagine this world without that.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 06:38:22 pm by Elju »

themerchant

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Captain Slogger
  • Posts: 953
    • View Profile
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 06:42:25 pm »
The Pole star (nail of heaven) might be some sort of portal.

I've always wondered if the no-god is felt universally or just on Earwa.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2893
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 06:45:32 pm »
Interesting point about the Progenitors' age! There's a good chance H is right and they died along with the Ark, but if they're capable of that sort of technology they may have a backup plan.

I like the idea that the subsequent stories will be more human, but I think one reason these books have worked so well is that they articulate, in a compelling way, the myriad intersections of the human and non-human. It's hard to imagine this world without that.

I don't think there will be a lack of Sranc or Bashrags though.  And, there are still some number from Wracu around, I can't recall if Skuthula died, but Wutteät is still someplace.  I'd have to find and consult my list, but there are a couple more I believe that are still unaccounted for.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

themerchant

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Captain Slogger
  • Posts: 953
    • View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 07:17:12 pm »
Wutteat doesn't answer to them though. Loads of sranc and bashrag west of the arc in those mountains. Be other dragons about surely. even if Skuthula is dead.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2893
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 07:23:24 pm »
Wutteat doesn't answer to them though. Loads of sranc and bashrag west of the arc in those mountains. Be other dragons about surely. even if Skuthula is dead.

That is true, he claims he isn't commanded by the No-God, but his salvation is the same as the Inchoroi's though, so he would probably fall in line with the No-God's objective.

I went back and dug up my list:
Ghoset - ?
Skafra, Tyrant of Cloud and Mountain - Killed by Seswatha at Mengedda in 2155.
Skogma - "thought destroyed during the Cûno-Inchoroi Wars."
Skuthula, the Black - "one of the few Dragons known to have survived the Apocalypse."
Tanhafut, the Red - Killed by Nau-Cayûti at the Battle of Ossirish.
Wutteät, the Black, the Terrible, the Black-and-Golden, Father of Dragons - Still alive, somewhere near Sauglish.

I believe this is a list of all the Wracu we know of.  Only Ghoset's fate is completely unknown.  Which dragon is dead at the bottom of the Black Halls is a mystery though.

Since we know know that Skuthula is alive, that means the chances are good that Ghoset is the dead one in the Black Halls.  We do learn of one more Wracu, Murathaur, the Silver, the Dragon of Knives (slain by Cilcûliccas, Lord of Swans) but that doesn't change anything.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Francis Buck

  • *
  • Kcub Sicnarf
  • Kijneta
  • *****
  • The Lordlady
  • Posts: 273
  • Philosoraptor
    • View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 08:11:51 pm »
My biggest crackpot (which TUC did not shatter) is that:

1. Earwa's timeline is cyclical -- I definitely think this is true in a soft sense, but I've suspected for a while that it may quite literally be perfectly cyclical, meaning not just similar events but the SAME events occur over and over, for all eternity. The Apocalypse(s) simply mark "transition" periods.

2. That the Inchoroi are thus humans from the "future"...or the past, depending on how you look at it. Only now I would amend that the Fathers of the Inchoroi weren't just humans -- they were Dunyain.

3. If the above two things are true (which is a big "if"), then I believe ALL the races are simply derivatives of humanity, even Wracu. Furthermore, certain characters (such as Aurang and Aurax, or the dragons) may actually be characters we know of from the series already...which has all kinds of crazy connotations.

I actually have a bunch of reasons supporting this, but it's still a shot in the dark(ness that comes before). I intend to explore it and other high-level metaphysical stuff in the series in a post I've been working on for quite a while, but was waiting for TUC's release -- along with enough free time to actually make a coherent post out of all my notes.