Did The False Sun spoil TUC for you?

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TaoHorror

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« on: August 30, 2017, 10:43:43 pm »
Bakker said The False Sun will "spoil" how we think of The Consult by reading it before TUC. I don't know - seemed like there wasn't much of The Consult left by the end. They lost ( a thousand? ) sorcerers destroying Ishual. Shae "left" when The Mutilated took over. Aurang is quickly slain. Not sure if the 100 skinspies are all Techne creations or some Mangaecca ( who Bakker says have all died off ). Not sure what he was getting at, that The False Sun spoils anything for me. I guess providing some POV from The Consult, it demonstrates the incredible manipulative abilities of The Dunyain to have orchestrated a successful/complete coup. Anyone have better insight into this? Maybe I'm too thick to have "gotten" the spoiler ...
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 11:17:41 pm »
I dunno, I'm guessing it has to do with how they justify their actions, how seeing one's own damnation in the Inverse Fire motivates one to shut off the world.

Sausuna

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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 01:13:28 am »
I think the spoiler was that you'd inevitable side with the Consult after hearing the hot description of an Inchoroi up close.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 02:49:08 am »
ha, ha - true - that was a massive turn on reading Inchoroi/man sex after killing off the most powerful sorcerer at that time.  :o

And to think, this may have all been avoided if Titira didn't hesitate berating Shae and simply attacked ...
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 02:51:24 am »
ha, ha - true - that was a massive turn on reading Inchoroi/man sex after killing off the most powerful sorcerer at that time.  :o

And to think, this may have all been avoided if Titira didn't hesitate berating Shae and simply attacked ...
On the other hand, if not for the impatience of Sil...  8)

Walter

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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 02:35:46 pm »
Kind of.  It spoiled the motivations of the Consult, which had hitherto been much less clear.  It let me anticipate the Inverse Fire being used as a trap for Kellhus.

Sausuna

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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 02:50:05 pm »
Kind of.  It spoiled the motivations of the Consult, which had hitherto been much less clear.  It let me anticipate the Inverse Fire being used as a trap for Kellhus.
Weren't both those things fairly clear, though? I thought Wutteät revealed the planetary depopulation thing as a means to shut the world back in The White-Luck Warrior. And perhaps even having been mentioned in parts of The Prince of Nothing (particularly with Akka once and Moënghus)?

I expected it to be a trap once they told him to look. But we're told of it back during Nau-Cayuti's dreams, where all the Nonmen are staring at it. But this might be the 'spoiler', given I can't remember any other real mention of it otherwise. Besides the often mention pair who went crazy going into the golden room. Might be spoilery if we weren't meant to know what to expect.

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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2017, 04:24:22 pm »
We used to bring this up on Casts, especially in the lead up to and follow on TGO's release.

Primarily The False Sun seeds the Inverse Fire and Titirga. However, before TUC, only a small subset of online readers had ever heard of the short.

The question for us then (and me always) was whether or not TGO/TUC introduces either Titirga or, but especially, the Inverse Fire well-enough in the main narrative without having read TFS first. It'll be interesting to hear from my high school buddies about what they think of the ending and the Atrocity Tales thereafter.
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Woden

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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 05:34:36 pm »
The tale didn't spoil TUC at all for me. It is only now, after reading it several times, that in an indirect way some things could have other meanings and implications.
Maybe it is only a posteriori spoiler, noticed only when you have read both stories. Anyway, nothing that troubles me, the more Atrocity Tales we have the better.
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 05:59:02 pm »
Yeah, agreed, why I made this post - just didn't see TFS "ruining" TUC at all - maybe like some of you are saying I had a better understanding of the IF so I could understand the ending easier ( for which ease of understanding is apparently a negative for our beloved author :) )
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2017, 08:45:57 pm »
The False Sun didn't spoil or ruin TUC for me personally, however it did sort of telegraph the greater thematic and narrative crux that TUC would make use of (that being the notion of the seemingly all-powerful Ubermensch having the floor fall out beneath him -- figuratively and literally, in TFS's case). To be honest though I don't even think that would have stood out if RSB had not mentioned that TFS could be "spoilerly" to begin with.

MSJ

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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2017, 09:08:10 pm »
Quote from:  The Horned Mod
The False Sun didn't spoil or ruin TUC for me personally, however it did sort of telegraph the greater thematic and narrative crux that TUC would make use of (that being the notion of the seemingly all-powerful Ubermensch having the floor fall out beneath him -- figuratively and literally, in TFS's case). To be honest though I don't even think that would have stood out if RSB had not mentioned that TFS could be "spoilerly" to begin with.

+1

I had thought what he meant would've had something to do with Titirga in particular. His sorcery, and after TGO and knowing Meppa was alive, I thought Kellhus would fuse the Meta-Gnosis and the Psukhe. That's what I thought the spoiler would be. Which, indeed he did in a way, as Bakker said the more knowledge of the world and strength he gained the closer he was to speaking with God's own voice. Which as Wilshire said, has A LOT of implications in itself.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Nemojbatkastle

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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 05:05:57 pm »
It didn't, because when I read it I didn't understand it. I suppose there was some stuff I saw coming, but I think I need to reread it once my head clears from TUC.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 05:53:57 pm »
I hear ya, I didn't understand it either. I talked a few things out here, but still was confused by it. After a few weeks, I took another shot at it and it was much clearer with the "flash backs' being more obvious to me, easier to follow.

I would say TFS confused me about the ending of TUC more than anything - I was expecting some serious shit to go down with them, but either they were all dead by then or were routinely dispatched of - which is not a criticism, I LOVED the ending, just trying to figure out what Bakker had in mind with TFS.

You know - Bakker has mentioned a few times with his Q&A sessions with us that it appears we missed something regarding The Consult ( one example was someone questions validity of The Consult bringing back Dunyain, Bakker said ( paraphrasing ) we missed something to ask that question and left it as Humility wasn't a feature of The Consult psychology ). Hmm ... making me think that maybe they "need" to be led, part of their genetic engineered pathology. We see Aurang "teaming" with Shae in a way suggesting more than simply strategy, collecting/corrupting allies for their cause. And we see Aurax cower before The Mutilated when he hears of his brother's demise. Maybe they're are all part of "machinery" ... more than techne enhanced, but purely techne generated - though they are damned, so maybe not. I don't know, it's like I'm on to "it", but keeps escaping me and I find conflicting evidence to any conclusion I attempt to draw.
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Redeagl

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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2017, 08:47:12 pm »
False Sun's purpose was something I expected from before TGO. Laying the groundwork for The Inverse Fire.There is the whole thing with Titirga's sorcery which I suspect will be important in TNG.
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