What do you believe? (Redux)

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TLEILAXU

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« on: November 13, 2017, 03:23:32 pm »
I believe that there is a God, in a very trivial and general sense. And free will is trivially false.

Life (capital L) as we know it is basically a system that works towards two things: increased complexity (intelligence) and decreased chaos (entropy).
Entropy will always increase for an isolated system.
In that sense, life is not ontologically different from the rest of matter. Free energy goes in, the system consumes to maintain a steady state, heat comes out.
What is special about is that we are configurations of matter aware of ourselves and the universe. I would love to live long enough to see how it all ends.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 09:54:58 pm »
Evolution didn't make you, Hershey - you're too cute!

It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

Wilshire

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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 04:57:56 pm »
I forgot to answer the question: What do you believe?
No gods. No demons. Just people who think they are.
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MSJ

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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 05:51:47 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
I forgot to answer the question: What do you believe?
No gods. No demons. Just people who think they are.

You and I have talked a little about our disdain for religion. But, I do believe in a higher being or what have you. I think Karma is an actual thing. In fact, I preach it to my kids. Example - my daughter said or did something wrong to me, can remember exactly what and when she turned around and went in the kitchen, turned the corner, she fell flat on her face. I laughed and said that's what Karma is all about.  Then tried explaining it to her, who is only 7 and my son (5). Now, Isaiah thinks that when you do something bad, you'll fall on the kitchen floor...lol.

I just can't stand organized religion when they try and push it in your face. I hate it. I will be ignorant and rude to the Jehovah's Witness who shows up on my porch and tells me I'm going to he'll if I don't follow their religion.

Its basically this. I'd call myself a Christian, because that's what I was raised. I am deeply torn when it comes to what I believe in that book and what I don't. But, I know that Jesus, if he was even real or what have you, laid out a lot of ways to lead a good life. Simple things. Treat everyone the same, help out each other and so on. I just wanna be the best human being I can be, and I admit, its tough sometimes.

My daughter and son go to church every Sunday with their Grandma. She is hugely devote, and it has rubbed off more on my daughter than son. But, I have no problem with it. To each his own, I say. Just don't come knocking on my door telling me how to live my life.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TaoHorror

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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 06:49:19 pm »
I forgot to answer the question: What do you believe?
No gods. No demons. Just people who think they are.

Pretty sure my son falls in the latter category ( i.e. he thinks he's a demon )
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

TaoHorror

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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 07:25:04 pm »
When I was in college, I answered the door naked once when JW showed up knocking. The mother slapped her hand on her daughter's eyes, her daughter was trying to squirm out of her hold exclaiming, "let me see, let me see!". I wouldn't do that now, of course.

In my current incarnation, I'm what you would call a liberal christian ( to overly generalize for ease of conversation ) - which is a christian who doesn't believe people go to hell just because they aren't Christians. A quick run down of the 3 basic categories ( again, overly simplifying for conversation - there are over 1600 denominations around the world, all full of texture, depth and identity ). Fundamentalists place going to church as or more important than the bible. Evangelicals put the bible ( as written word, verbatim best they can ) above going to church. Both F and E typically believe you have to "accept" Christ to be saved ( again, some texture - some believe Jews are exceptions, etc ). Liberal Christians believe it's not important to be a bible scholar to enter heaven ( a criticism of the Evangelicals ), but anyone who "walks" the life of Christ is saved ( or at least values/aims for that walk, nobody is perfect ). When Jesus says the only way to the father is through him ( bp ), we take that to mean living his life/living a "good" life, not requiring one to "accept him as lord and savior". We view the ( to use Bakker language ) endless disputation on the meaning of passages of the bible, the infighting among Christians on the "specifics" to be a waste of time and worse leading down the wrong path, driving away others. So Liberal Christians agree with the major tenets of the bible and try to shirk off the self-inflicted wounds of traditional Christendom ( hypocrisy, cafeteria sin tolerance, license for bad behavior ) ... so those really badly behaving people out there that claim they're saved giving them the green light to do whatever they like ... liberal Christians have news for them, they're not. Atheists can be saved to our point of view ( questioning God's existence gives God a ping of pride, to our way of thinking ). If you can follow just the one ( hardest ) directive of Christ, to love your enemies, the rest all falls into place and you need not read more on how to live from the bible or anything else. Of course, it can be a lot of fun to do so, but not required if you can actually love your enemies. The "proselytizing" we do is to walk that walk among others, lead by example - spread "good" if you will, not try to "turn" anyone.

Your position on religion is understandable - religion is run by massive numbers of humans, all fraught with error and evil. Bit of advice, don't let your sour view on religion deprive you of some cool stuff. Like reading the rich texts from various "gurus" for example. The mistake ( some ) evangelicals make is to disregard the amazing reads out there which dispute or criticize religion with some even "avoiding"  science, which is sad to miss out on so much humanity. Atheists can make the same mistake in the other direction - some of the spiritual history and texts are wild, fun stuff to read. Religious history is the history of humanity - to avoid/disregard them is to miss out on some seriously cool history and exposure to wild-ass intellectuals.
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

H

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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 06:32:11 pm »
I believe I have a lot to do and very little time to get it all done.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

TaoHorror

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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 07:00:20 pm »
I believe I have a lot to do and very little time to get it all done.

Great, H - just drop the "I believe I'll have another beer" response - bring it on, man! WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

Wilshire

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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 07:11:09 pm »
WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

Fixed that for you ;)
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Redeagl

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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 07:21:04 pm »
I believe that Starcraft 2 30GB download is stupid as fuck, and completely blame William for this.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 05:11:27 pm »
I forgot to answer the question: What do you believe?
No gods. No demons. Just people who think they are.

Did you really not participate in this thread the first time around :P?
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Wilshire

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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2018, 05:40:39 pm »
I forgot to answer the question: What do you believe?
No gods. No demons. Just people who think they are.

Did you really not participate in this thread the first time around :P?
Indeed until just now I hadn't gone through it all. Some topics I consciously avoided in th epast, this was one of them.
Fascinating topic. I'm glad I wasn't around to ruin it with my drivel - its a great brick in the monument.

Also identifies a rather morose picture of what the forum has become. Good-tempered deep conversations with different perspectives maintained over pages of posts in the days of old, now new posts are short and silly one liners with longer posts totally ignored.

We are but a shadow. [/overly dramatic]
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 08:13:14 pm by Wilshire »
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MSJ

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2018, 06:27:54 pm »
What do I believe? As in what waiting there for us in the afterlife? I don't know. I have my preconceived notions of what should happen through my Christian upbringing. Heaven, hell, the whole deal. Do I truly believe it? No, no I don't.

As I've gotten older, and looked at it in my own deductive ways and thought through these things, here is what I believe.

I believe that our body's rot and become part of the earth again. Simple.

I believe that there is a part of us, our consciousness/soul, what have you, that is something that will always be yours. It is you, in the cosmic scheme of things. I've read a whole lot and watched on near death experiences. Many see a white light that beckons them, what we could perceive as heaven, not me. I do believe it is a higher being though and that our soul goes out into the cosmos, to become something else, to get an upgrade or something like that.

I've also seen near death experiences where people felt that they went to hell. Maybe this is the opposite of the light, the darkness. And wether corny or not, that in the cosmos there is a battle off light vs darkness, evil vs good.

All, I know is there is a part of me that will always be around, forever. Where it goes, what becomes of it, I have no clue. I just believe there is more after death and a part of all of us will survive death.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TaoHorror

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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2018, 10:43:22 pm »
..., now new posts are short and silly one liners with longer posts totally ignored.

We are but a shadow. [/overly dramatic]

... a part of all of us will survive death.

I'm taking my games and miniatures with me, motha fuckas!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:48:22 pm by TaoHorror »
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2018, 11:09:57 pm »
What do I believe? As in what waiting there for us in the afterlife? I don't know. I have my preconceived notions of what should happen through my Christian upbringing. Heaven, hell, the whole deal. Do I truly believe it? No, no I don't.

As I've gotten older, and looked at it in my own deductive ways and thought through these things, here is what I believe.

I believe that our body's rot and become part of the earth again. Simple.

I believe that there is a part of us, our consciousness/soul, what have you, that is something that will always be yours. It is you, in the cosmic scheme of things. I've read a whole lot and watched on near death experiences. Many see a white light that beckons them, what we could perceive as heaven, not me. I do believe it is a higher being though and that our soul goes out into the cosmos, to become something else, to get an upgrade or something like that.

I've also seen near death experiences where people felt that they went to hell. Maybe this is the opposite of the light, the darkness. And wether corny or not, that in the cosmos there is a battle off light vs darkness, evil vs good.

All, I know is there is a part of me that will always be around, forever. Where it goes, what becomes of it, I have no clue. I just believe there is more after death and a part of all of us will survive death.
What would you do if you woke up tomorrow absolutely certain that death was absolute? How would your beliefs, your goals and your drives change?