One of my favourite scenes now is at the start of TWP. From Kellhus PoV(paraphrasing here) where he thinks that after a long time of exposure to Akka he now knows him better than everyone. He is thinking about how his two friends Esmi and Xin think him weak and try and shelter him from life. however after months of prolonged exposure he now knows Akka is actually stronger than anyone realises especially Akka. He then thinks something about how some people need hewn from experience like a rock.

I just like the implications of that scene. Everyone thinks Akka is the weak one but Kellhus knows he is strong and just needs a little bit "experience" which i'm sure the aspect emperor is providing him with.

or maybe they only see through when one is sleeping/dreaming. Non-souled Beings do not "dream" therefore don't project into the outside rendering the gods blind to them. I'm sure i read the cants of calling only work when sleeping because you are closer to the outside. unless you're Moe of course with his face-time Cish app.  Ses found some way to modify a cant of calling so it transmitted certain images of the past when you're connected to the outside by sleeping/dreaming. Also dreaming you're "blind" and seeing without the use of your eyes, but your "third eye" (or minds eye). 

Anyway,  speculating about the wrong thing if one takes the title of the thread for guidance, apologies for taking it off on a tangent.   

Quote from: themerchant on January 04, 2014, 09:12:05 am

Quote from: locke on December 03, 2013, 07:15:47 pm

my favorite quote of her's on ZTS went something like, "it really sucks to have a completely self contained and textual reinforced theory completely destroyed by something the author says outside the books.

I loved her theory that Kellhus goes back in time and the 3rd trilogy is called The first Apocalypse. Hence the secrecy about it's name. It could explain the changing dreams of Akka

Now it seems there might not even be a third trilogy, which makes all the hours speculating its' name moot now. Since RSB says TUC finishes his original story.

Why was there so much speculation about the name of the third triology when there is no need for one to finish the original story?

Nerdanel said that first! Gall. I've been pushing someone else's conception with my own... nerdanels!

themerchant, I definitely think that the comment he made that inspired this "finished story" kind of thought process in fans rather suggested that he had an original teenage spark and he's finishing that with TUC. However, it seems very much like the idea grew beyond that in intervening years. TSTSNBN is definitely still coming and satisfies what Bakker seems to think is an intractable (neh, impossible) problem. My personal guess is that the 'seed idea' was some kind of moral problem within dogmatic religious constraints that Bakker couldn't see himself around then. Probably, following that at some point, he decided he had learned enough to attempt solving (or validating) the issue he thinks he's highlighting?

But pure and rampant speculation based on absolutely no real information. So grain of salt.

Well, i think i first read it on westeros from her. My memory is not perfect and it could have been you or perhaps someone else. I loved the theory though.

I also think the gods see everything like from the inside of a black hole, where because of time dilation due to gravity, if one looked back they could see all of history as it crossed the event horizon, and see it at once without any real context of time. It would all just be there. When you look at it you'll see all time but it wont be distinguished by time intervals, so you just see everything, which would make it hard to distinguish when happened what, well i think it would, never actually been inside a black-hole.

With regards to Dunyain weakness. I can't think of any really. I'll keep an eye out as i always take a Bakker book to read on the bus or train.

thanks for the info about the other series, always feels good to know have more Bakker books coming.

Hello, not really sure where to put this, but hopefully here is relevant and it hasn't been discussed already, i personally haven't seen it so apologies if it has been spotted before.

OK the assumptions i've made with this "theory" are.

1.The Anasurimbor line has Nonman blood in it.
2. Anasurimbor burn their dead (as evidenced it seems from the view we had at the poisoning of Cel)

From TTT Orbit (UK Paperback) page 208

When Esme starts reading the Sagas, a description of the Birth of Celemonas and the still birth of his twin.

"Huormomas, the poet insisted, ever stalked his brother's side, chilling his heart even as he quickened his intellect"

"Chilling his heart and quickening his intellect"

Wouldn't that be a description of what Quirri does? Or indeed chanv maybe even better so?

they probably would have burned the stillborn were the ashes in a pouch at Celemonas side? CC's ashes are still kicking (or were) thousands of years later and have Skin eaters all taking some each night for quite a period of time.

Anyway just noticed that on a re-read back, not sure of it's relevance or if anyone else has seen it.