[mrganondorf]

mrganondorf: are there any humorous parts in TUC?

Madness: There is one in particular right near the end.  Without releasing any spoilers, I can say that it involves a conversation between the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys.'

mrganondorf: that's great!  do we learn any more about the ursranc?

Madness: Yes, but I can't say a lot because they are semi-important to the plot.

mrganondorf: are there any sexy bits?

Madness: Beyond the obvious, I cannot say anything about this topic?  It's fucking cosmic.

mrganondorf: obvious? cosmic?

Madness: Well it's obvious that Ishterebinth is going to have some Nonman on Nonman lovin, but I can't say anything about 'cosmic."

mrganondorf: Do we find out about the Heron Spear?

Madness: Surprisingly no, this question is emphatically bumped off till the next series.

mrganondorf: woah!

Madness: Yeah, I was surprised.

mrganondorf: one final question, is this all in my head?

Madness: Yes, MG, you are talking to yourself.  The real Madness would never let out such awful teasers.

[sologdin]

Madness: But I can't really say anymore about it.

sologdin: does leweth return?

Madness: Yes. He is very important for the middle three-sevenths of the book.

sologdin: is he a cannibal?

Madness: Can't really say. 

sologdin: is he a walking topoi?

Madness: That's a dumb question. No offense.

sologdin: does lew have the gnosis?

Madness: I can't tell about the gnosis.

sologdin: how much is he involved with AI black semen?

Madness: If you think that I will spoil that, then you are crazier than a shithouse rat.

[unJon]

Madness, now that you've read all the books, could you list them out in order by which you like most?

[mrganondorf]

LMAO.  Leweth and the Tabby team up to save Earwa.

[sologdin]

lew is shot through a wormhole and joins up with escaped criminals from a living inchie prison ship such as a genetically enhanced tabby cat, a gnostic sorcerer head-in-a-jar, a rogue bashrag with a heart of gold, and a supermodel with green skin who happens to be the best swordsperson in the galaxy.  together, they return to earwa and execute every last motherfucker up in here.

[mrganondorf]

WOW

"bashrag with a heart of gold" LOL

This is the rewrite that brings us The Unholy Consult, the Movie.

Put Kellhus in for comic relief.  He'll be turning up at odd moments, like when Seswatha and Yatwer make love, and spouting his catch phrase "I am Dunyain, one of the Conditioned!"

[Madness]

You people are awesome.

Madness, now that you've read all the books, could you list them out in order by which you like most?

I'm doing a pleasurable and immersive re-read while I'm being world-slapped. So give me a week or so and I'll let you know my thoughts.

Content aside (which automatically seems to make the latest edition of a series like this most enjoyable as it's most revealing), I think that Bakker is still reaching his peak of writerly balance. I don't think he's plateaued yet.

But in rereading, I'm struck again about how much I love TDTCB as it's own book. It's so different from everything that comes after and yet it's deliciously layered (which, I think, might make or break the series in it's culmination because no matter how strong his writing to come is, TDTCB and it's initial writing may be the hook around which the series hangs - good thing he took 15+ years putting in work).

The Xerius vs. Maithanet struggle is so awesome. And obviously in hindsight, the whole tale takes on a completely different flavour. It literally is not the story you are reading the first time through.

[sologdin]

does that mean that lew does in fact return with a gang of farscaped criminals?

[Madness]

In rereading, I realize that might have been an ambiguous post for this thread. But, of course, in the hopes of misleading, take from it what you will. After all, you and MG have already best figured how get teasings from me .

[Borric]

Any comment on the “Nail of Heaven” Madness?

[mrganondorf]

EVERYONE, MADNESS LET IT SLIP: XERIUS VS MAITHANET IS KEY TO UNDERSTANDING THE UNHOLY CONSULT!!!

[Abalieno]

Hmm. I'm attempting to summarize a few points here, but I don't have the time to go hunt the little bits that are relevant.

For now I got one:

It is almost exactly 300 000 words as it stands.

Yes, but I can’t really comment on them. TUC wraps all the arcs established through the series thus far – brings me to the end of my original story idea, way back when. If I were to keel over tomorrow, the mortician would have to use forceps and wire to wipe the shit-eating grin from my face.

1- 300k words, or 350, or even 400 shouldn't motivate a split in two books. That's why, regardless of the volume of stuff, Bakker should push as much as he can to do all of it in one volume.

2- The hype here is about Bakker playing his hand. For years he teased some big splash. Regardless of sequels past TUC what we expect is that he plays his hand fully, instead of keeping hiding it. So this plays a role in how the book will be received. It isn't much about "closure" to plotlines. It's about him being generous about the point of the series, instead of just teasing something that never actually comes.

So, it's not much a case of TUC needing to be a "game finisher", and more a case of it being a "game changer".

(add here the blog quote where he says that he's sure TUC will draw attention even from those who don't read him, because the idea behind the whole thing has never been realized, or something along those lines)

The point is: he hyped TUC not as a pleasing book for the fans, but something that is supposed to have a big impact even among those who aren't currently following the series. So it's not about fanservice kind of stuff, and more about revealing this hidden hand.

[Wilshire]

Where is that quote from?

Anyway, WLW is about 200k words, and thats a hefty book. If its going to be double that size, I think it certainly should be two books. My reasoning is because Overlook sucks. Bakker is a midlist author, and Overlook seems that they couldn't care less about helping Bakker in any way. I think its far, far, more likely that they will tell him that he needs to cut down the book to <250k if it is one book, and that will ruin the story. To me, if the book is can be split into two that are bigger than the 151k words that TJE was, then we as readers will get far more than if he publishes it as one.

For someone like GRRM or Erikson, 400k+ words isn't a big deal, but those are big names with bigger publishers. No one is going to tell GRRM that he can't make a book whatever size he wants, but that situation is worlds away from the situation that Bakker is in. I'm worried that TUC will be shoehorned into some "acceptable" size, and we'll lose a lot of the story.

link for word counts:
http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/1869

[Madness]

Any comment on the “Nail of Heaven” Madness?

Nothing to tease, Borric. I was asked elsewhere but neglected to answer.

Hmm. I'm attempting to summarize a few points here, but I don't have the time to go hunt the little bits that are relevant.

For now I got one:

It is almost exactly 300 000 words as it stands.

Yes, but I can’t really comment on them. TUC wraps all the arcs established through the series thus far – brings me to the end of my original story idea, way back when. If I were to keel over tomorrow, the mortician would have to use forceps and wire to wipe the shit-eating grin from my face.

1- 300k words, or 350, or even 400 shouldn't motivate a split in two books. That's why, regardless of the volume of stuff, Bakker should push as much as he can to do all of it in one volume.

Why? Seriously, if it's a good argument I still have a chance to influence the man's decision... but I don't understand this request from any fan.

2- The hype here is about Bakker playing his hand. For years he teased some big splash. Regardless of sequels past TUC what we expect is that he plays his hand fully, instead of keeping hiding it. So this plays a role in how the book will be received. It isn't much about "closure" to plotlines. It's about him being generous about the point of the series, instead of just teasing something that never actually comes.

So, it's not much a case of TUC needing to be a "game finisher", and more a case of it being a "game changer".

(add here the blog quote where he says that he's sure TUC will draw attention even from those who don't read him, because the idea behind the whole thing has never been realized, or something along those lines)

The point is: he hyped TUC not as a pleasing book for the fans, but something that is supposed to have a big impact even among those who aren't currently following the series. So it's not about fanservice kind of stuff, and more about revealing this hidden hand.

Again, I don't understand why this should motivate him to release it as one book, instead of two, if he gets the opportunity.

All I can say is that of what I have read, I don't want to see it published as is or, as Wilshire mentions above, worse yet pared down from what is as the publishers make... ridiculous and mass-pleasing decisions in exactly "what to cut" (which, any true fan, should surely be upset by).

EDIT:

I'm worried that TUC will be shoehorned into some "acceptable" size, and we'll lose a lot of the story.

Exactly. I'm worried about the content lost to fans. Bakker should be allowed to tell the story in however many books or words he needs. And I certainly won't counsel him to "release it as one" (against my existing judgment) purely because fans seem to want to read the synopsis of what's to come rather than the book itself.

Strength on the journey. Journey well.

[Madness]

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html?m=1

Good time to post this since I'm various stages of inactive.