Earwa > The Unholy Consult

[TUC] The Gods and Their Agency

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Madness:
Corralling thoughts from another thread.

- How the Gods perceive historical events?
- How do the Gods influence the World?
- Etc
- Etc

Original thread here.

Dunkelheit:
It seems like the gods have different powers, Momas has the ability to cause earth quakes, Yatwer can make White Lucks. So they affect the world in different ways specific to the god in question. I take it that they perceive the entire timeline like White Luck does, so this probably means they are not really make decisions as much as they are gonna do the things they have already done. So I don't think they are like greek gods, actual beings with actual agency. I think they are more like if the forces of nature reacted to moral laws instead of physical laws?

themerchant:
I think they see time like you could look from inside a black hole(if you didn't die, if you could see severe blue shift wavelengths etc). Everything can be seen but it's stationary and you can't connect events through time as they are all happening at once, you just have all the information but not in a causal way where you can see the progression of events like we do.

Over that though Kellhus seems to suggest there is a way to change the whole including the gods in a way that the whole and the gods are not even aware they changed.

MSJ:
I agree with Merch and this also applies to H's theory. I think through the Diamos and the Head on the pole, Kellhus has figured the rules to the Outside and bent them, so to say. The Dreams are a clue to this. Kellhus is speaking to himself through the Outside. This "place" is nothing like a hell, its serene and peaceful. Might we say, a hiding place? From Bakker's answer we know that Ajokli cannot find Kellhus, thus the pact with Ajokli was a fluke. A way to use Ajokli to his own means. Everything points to Kellhus tricking Ajokli. He very well could be stuck in a Decapitant, but i wouldnt say it was by accident. My money though, is that he is in the Outside.

themerchant:
It's a huge quote so not typing it all out, maybe someone can lift it from kindle or something and put it on here.

Fuck it going for it.

"As they have to!The thing-the most horrific thing to understand, Proyas, is that at some point, the inchoroi must win . At some point perhaps this year or ages hence, the whole of humanity will be butchered. Think on it! Why did Momas strike Momenn, his namesake city, and not this infernal place? Why is Eternity blind to Golgotterath Because it stands outside of enternity, outside what the gods can see and that blindness is nothing short of breathtaking, Proyas! Our actions, our great Ordeal, follows a doom outside of doom We undertake a pilgrimage that rewrites the hundred with every step.
 
"When they attack me, the anasurimbor continued,"their assasins are doomed since creating to succeed, and then they fail as they were always doomed to fail. Eternity is transformed and the hundred with it, oblvious to the transformation. The unholy Ark is the the disfiguring absence, the put that consumes all trace of consumption!To the degree it moves us, we pursue a Fate the Gods can never see...

"do you see, Proyas? we act outside Eternity, here... in this place.

"Aye, if the absolute is anywhere to be found it is here

ps i hate bakkers use of italics now since i had to type them all fucking out.

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