Earwa > The Unholy Consult
[TUC Spoiler] Heron Spear?
H:
--- Quote from: Madness on June 10, 2019, 06:17:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: Wilshire on June 10, 2019, 06:05:31 pm ---Yeah the Nonmen in general were not to keen on Aporostic(?) practices.
--- End quote ---
Which I'm still interested in given Mimara's "miracle" against the Wight (I also really don't understand why people seem to think Mimara's first Chorae was "special"). I thought it pretty evident that she would see all Chorae as such with the Eye.
--- End quote ---
Well, because I am the sort of horse's ass who would quote myself:
--- Quote from: H on October 19, 2018, 01:43:47 pm ---But to return to what we were discussing, now the Spirit is the ledger, the Soul the stylus that writes upon it and the Body the vessel of the union. This Spirit-as-ledger is how Mimara’s Judging Eye functions. It’s view is the view to that ledger and in doing so, render judgment. That is, human judgment. Could it be then that Mimara's "power" to banish that Wight is similar to the sort of "thuamaturgy" we see Kellhus-Ajokli wield versus the Mutilated? As in, a power not of Sorcery but of Divine providence. That is to say, I somewhat disagree that Mimara's power is "setting the world" to a more "naturalistic" state. Eärwa's "natural state" is that of enchantment, a place where the dead can linger. So, the Wight's position is eminently natural. Which, of course it is, because it is.
I would divide out is that her intentions and the God's intentions aren't specifically one. That is to say that Mimara's intentions are still her own. The God couldn't care less if the Wight stayed there or not. But Mimara certainly did. In this way, she is right to declare that she holds the Gates. This is not divine justice carried out by Mimara. No, this is Mimara's justice carried out by the divine. That distinction is important, at least in my estimation, because it means that Mimara is the locus of Judgement, the Eye only a tool to that end. The "stillborn" issue, it was pointed out to me, seems to be a linguistic play on words, in the same manner as Éowyn can kill the Witch King in LotR. Éowyn is no man, rightly. So, Mimara does carry a stillborn, just also a living baby as well.
What Mimara seems to be doing, rather, is waking the God. That is, "fixing" the frame, such that the world is as it should be, by Mimara's judgement. This might well be the role of the Judging Eye. That is, the same role taken on by God-as-Christ, post-Job, in rendering the perspective of God from the mortal vantage. That is, the infinite cannot have a perspective on itself, because it is all thing. The Infinite cannot have any perspective, because it has all perspectives, which is no perspective at all. (This could easily be bias on my part, as I have at other times personally noted that there is a plausible parallel of sorts between Mimara and a Christ-figure.) (There is also something about Mimara's role being specifically conscious, as oppossed to the passive unconscious role of The God.)
--- End quote ---
Now, to me, what remains is the question of why this process turns the Chorae into a tool of banishment though.
I think Aporetics is actually a key here, in that the Chorae is passive, by nature, that is, it simply undoes that it contacts. However, Mimara's sort of thaumatury, wielden through the lens of the Chorae, turns it from a sort of aporetic "black hole," a devourer or undoer of the "un-natural frame," into a "white hole" that is, a beacon of Mimara's frame. So, the Chorae should do nothing to the natural state of the topos and it's contents. But not with Mimara, where she sets the frame, the natural paradoxical function of the Chorae is paradoxically inverted to Mimara's Judgement, perhaps.
I have no idea how this relates to the Heron Spear though.
Wilshire:
We know that Markless magic is a thing, if we're calling it thaumaturgy due to it being God(s) (markless) magic then I'm cool with that.
Is the Chorae itself actually material in the function of the object Mimara created? I don't know if that's actually the case - but certainly it can be easier to change the function of something than to create from scratch. Mimara and Kellhus' thaumaturgy are obviously going to be invoked in different ways. Kellhus directs things to happen through force of thought, Mimara through force of will. She thaumatically wills the chorae to function as she needs.
Achamian is confused when he sees Kellhus floating and whatever else markless magic , so him having no useful insight for what Mimar did is no surprise.
H:
--- Quote from: Wilshire on June 17, 2019, 06:42:05 pm ---We know that Markless magic is a thing, if we're calling it thaumaturgy due to it being God(s) (markless) magic then I'm cool with that.
Is the Chorae itself actually material in the function of the object Mimara created? I don't know if that's actually the case - but certainly it can be easier to change the function of something than to create from scratch. Mimara and Kellhus' thaumaturgy are obviously going to be invoked in different ways. Kellhus directs things to happen through force of thought, Mimara through force of will. She thaumatically wills the chorae to function as she needs.
Achamian is confused when he sees Kellhus floating and whatever else markless magic , so him having no useful insight for what Mimar did is no surprise.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, sorry, I am terrible with involving my own personal jargon into things. Indeed, I refer to Magic of a "Divine" nature, and so Markless, as "thaumaturgy." I think both those aspects are key, as the Psûhke is Markless, but not what I would call thuamaturgy, specifically because the further factor of a Chorae not working on it.
Ultimately it's kind of unclear just what Kellhus is actually doing to get Markless sorcery. It might be thuamaturgy, as I'd call it, via Ajokli, or it might actually be something like Titirga's proto-Psûhke.
In any case, I think the end product is slightly different, because in Mimara's case, her "power" seems to be in Judgement, in "setting the frame" of the world. In Ajokli (and maybe Kellhus') case, it's about manifest power over objects in the world. But that could well just be part and parcel of the source of each of their "power." Mimara's come from the Cubit, which is the "passive" Frame of the universe. Ajokli, et al, comes from a very different place, metaphysically speaking, a place necessarily within the Frame of the Cubit.
Anyway, in the case of Emilidis, my guess, based on nothing at all, is that he was an amoral tinkerer and likely did what he did by ruthlessly trapping and exploiting souls.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version