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Certainly, whatever the third sight is, Kellhus was able to deduce its existence from information gathered from Inrithi sources or the broad cultural knowledge derived from the cities they conquered en route to Shimeh. He just didn't have the opportunity to learn about any secret tech developed by Moe's cabal prior to their face-off.
“I am Hifanat ab Tunukri,” the eyeless man said breathlessly, “a Dionorate of the tribe Indara-Kishauri... I bear a message from your Father. He says, ‘You walk the Shortest Path. Soon you will grasp the Thousandfold Thought.’”Father?Sheathing his sword, Kellhus opened himself to every outward sign the man offered. He saw desperation and purpose. Purpose above all...“How did you find me?”“We see you. All of us.” Behind the man, the smoke rising from the Citadel opened like a great velvet rose.“Us?”“All of us who serve him — the Possessors of the Third Sight.”Him... Father. He controlled a faction within the Cishaurim...“I must,” Kellhus said emphatically, “know what he intends.”“He told me nothing... Even if he had, there wouldn’t be time.”Though battle stress and the absence of eyes complicated his reading, Kellhus could see the man spoke sincerely. But why, after summoning him from so far, would his father now leave him in the dark?" (TWP, p579).
Thankyou Madness.Obviously, I stand corrected.Well, actually I'm sitting down... so I stand corrected on that too.Erm, sit corrected...Except I'm not sitting correctly either.Well, this is arkward.I hope I dont fart.*prrpt*Damn.
I was about to ask someone to find a relevant quote. Thanks Madness.I think that can be read as either Moe is the sole possessor of the third site, or that the possessor of the third site is a title given to a Cish or a high ranked member of them.Is there anywhere else that third sight shows up?"the fourth kind" was a joke but I guess the JE could be it
See, I think that quote suggests that the 3rd sight is something specific to Moe and his Cish followers that is separate from the Cish in general. Perhaps the insights that the Logos provides or something?
“All of us who serve him — the Possessors of the Third Sight.”After rereading the whole thing several times'Possessors of the Third Sight'So they are not referring to Moe as the one with "third sight", really they are calling themselves possessors of the sight. Meaning that it is probably just some arbitrary title that Moe came up. A Dunyain bauble, nothing more. Words used to control.
Quote from: TTT"Seokti and the others respect you. Indeed, as Mallahet you have a reputation that reaches across Kian and beyond. And you shine in the Third Sight. But secretly they all think you cursed by the Solitary God. Why else would the water elude you?"It's Kellhus' induction that suggests all Cish possess the Third Sight.
"Seokti and the others respect you. Indeed, as Mallahet you have a reputation that reaches across Kian and beyond. And you shine in the Third Sight. But secretly they all think you cursed by the Solitary God. Why else would the water elude you?"
There were a few instances of reinforcement by Bakker on Three-Seas.That's how we have the whole idea that shining in the Third Sight somehow reflects the proper proportions of the God and that reflecting the proper proportions of God reflects, in the Dunyain, breeding to affect certain cognitive functions (memory being specifically mentioned).
But if the Third Sight is all-Cish stuff, it seems like Kellhus saying that Moe "shines" is a contradiction with him saying that what he thought was the shortest path was a dead end.
Quote from: TriskeleBut if the Third Sight is all-Cish stuff, it seems like Kellhus saying that Moe "shines" is a contradiction with him saying that what he thought was the shortest path was a dead end.Only if shining in the third sight means holding a lot of water. It could be that this shining is completely separate from this. That could have been the trap he fell into. That if he was all shiny that he must be able to bare a lot of water. Wrongo.Then again, if you are in the meta-Moe tribe, you should go over to the Moenghus is a lying liar who lies thread.
If you read the 2-3 pages of Kellhus explaining the metaphysics of sorcery (TTT) it all makes an oblique kind of sense."Shining in the Third Sight" probably indicates one's ability to recall the world from a universal point of veiw (True meaning, as Kellhus puts it).Unfortunately for Moenghus, this doesn't translate to power within the Cish's metaphysics - they chanel empathic force rather than leveraging amibguities.
I have a real hard time trusting Kellhus in that scene, Curethan. I mean, we know he uses truth to manipulate, we know he can only be manipulating Achamian, so it may reflect Earwa's reality... but it may not.+1. Fits with the whole memory theme.Meppa and Moenghus the Elder form an interesting gradient then: Meppa, who has no memory - may or may not shine with the Third Sight (remember, Psatma can see the Water that Meppa holds and calls it an "ocean," ironically feeding into the Kellhus' assertive metaphor that "God is an Ocean inside everyman.") But seems an unparralleled Psukhari.Moenghus, who has excellent memory - does seems to shine in the Third Sight (Kellhus does so shine to the Cishaurim from TWP), may or may not hold Water.Are there non-Cishaurim, faithful Fanim, who also shine in the Third Sight?Does the Third Sight reflect Cishaurim belief or only something of Moenghus' Sect? The Cishaurim in TWP seems to imply that it is sect-specific but Kellhus assumes in TTT that Moenghus shines in the Third Sight to all the Cishaurim.(Moenghus almost was certainly mirroring his son's attempts at domination within the Cishaurim and so clearly had been elevated to some position of respect - I really wonder how Mallahat can hold no water yet only be barred from High Heresiarch because he is a foreigner..)
Regarding Khellus, nothing decieves so well as the truth.Reward the intellect and punish the heart. It's the dunyain M.O. and its why their manipulations are so hard to escape.I really feel that scene is as close as Bakker has or will come to explaining sorcery - their may be some important omited facts, but I think it's pretty sound.The recollection he talks about is more some kind of ancestral or racial memory. It sounds to me like 'shining in the Third Sight' a way of seeing the few before they use magic, pre-Mark if you will.Remember that Akka had to test Kellhus to be sure if he was of the few? Well, I think the Cish can spot em straight away depending on how shiny they appear, lol.
+1. I was highlighting reasons to believe Kellhus - despite the fact that I feel I will always treat Kellhus as Cnaiur did, even though everything can't be deception through and through.I figure the Third Sight either relates explicitly to all Cishaurim or techniques that Moenghus has elaborated on the Psukhe - clearly, Moenghus uses and refashions Fanimry as Kellhus does Inrithism - not some third option... no pun intended.
Maybe the Third Sight is the Cish's way of perceiving the world after blinding after all...not their full on Psukhe abilities, and Moe does indeed shine in it because he's got little Dunyain advantages like perceiving changes in heartbeats and intonations in voices and the like? Sort of like he he noticed the skin spies? The other Cish were probably like "It's pretty cool that we can see despite our blinding, but this Moe guy, dude can really see."
