The Second Apocalypse

Miscellaneous Chatter => General Misc. => Topic started by: Madness on May 02, 2016, 01:33:12 pm

Title: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on May 02, 2016, 01:33:12 pm
Have at it.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Game of Thrones (TV - S6)
Post by: Redeagl on May 02, 2016, 03:22:16 pm
I wasn't shocked by the ending at all but Ramsay and Roose... I was truly SHOCKED in that scene.Also who the hell is Wllis his name is Walder.The flashback was awesome, Sansa,Arya and Tyrion had great scenes oh and King's Landing  too.Tommen is Making orders and taking names but Tommen wasn't the only star in King's Landing there was also our favourite Mountain.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Game of Thrones (TV - S6)
Post by: Garet Jax on May 02, 2016, 07:57:57 pm
Pretty solid second episode last night that got the season off to a true start after the table setting episode 1.  Not as much surprise on my end with the several "shockers", but I agree, the Ramsay one was the most surprising.  I think I am more surprised that Roose would not see that coming, more so than Ramsay actually doing it.


Also, I think I will have to re watch the ending, but was it just me, or was Jon Snow's eyes blue?


Hopefully George Arrrgghh Martin is happy with what the show is doing with his life work.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Game of Thrones (TV - S6)
Post by: MSJ on May 02, 2016, 10:34:28 pm
As far Jon, I'm excited to see how this transformation effects him. Does he become ruthless? Less stoic? I hope that he is truly headed toward the Iron throne. I New he wasn't dead. Tyrion and his interaction with the dragons might be a hint to his Targaryn blood also, imho. Great episode!

That said, I think TSA could be done in the same format as GoT and done well. Maybe certain things would have to be glossed over, but I'd love to see it.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Game of Thrones (TV - S6)
Post by: Redeagl on May 02, 2016, 10:38:16 pm
As far Jon, I'm excited to see how this transformation effects him. Does he become ruthless? Less stoic? I hope that he is truly headed toward the Iron throne. I New he wasn't dead. Tyrion and his interaction with the dragons might be a hint to his Targaryn blood also, imho. Great episode!

That said, I think TSA could be done in the same format as GoT and done well. Maybe certain things would have to be glossed over, but I'd love to see it.
I wish he will change but I don't think he will change though, i hoped so. However in the books GRRM said that no character would come back from the dead unchanged.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Game of Thrones (TV - S6)
Post by: themerchant on May 16, 2016, 02:13:12 am
The dothraki use "cunt" a lot would be my overall take from this episode. Episode 4.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on May 16, 2016, 02:17:04 am
Edited title for "TV" spoilers.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Aural on May 16, 2016, 02:21:59 am
I still can’t get over the fact that Dani seems to have mastered the Dothraki language so quickly.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: locke on May 16, 2016, 06:40:31 pm
It was a year in the first season as she had time to get pregnant and carry it to term. Since she already grew up bilingual speaking valerian and english, it's not outrageous that a young teen fully immersed in a culture and also determined to learn could pickup a third language to fluency in that time
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on May 16, 2016, 07:53:56 pm
It was a year in the first season as she had time to get pregnant and carry it to term. Since she already grew up bilingual speaking valerian and english, it's not outrageous that a young teen fully immersed in a culture and also determined to learn could pickup a third language to fluency in that time

Plus Missandei is fluent in Dothraki and has been by her side the entire time.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Redeagl on May 23, 2016, 12:48:44 am
The ending of the episode is heartbreaking.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: profgrape on May 23, 2016, 02:08:11 am
The ending of the episode is heartbreaking.

Indeed. My wife is close to tears and keeps asking me, "tell me this doesn't happen in the books!"
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on May 24, 2016, 12:16:09 am
Apparently, that is what GRRM intends to happen in the books - as per After the Thrones, which is akin to Talking Dead.

I love that the actor who plays Bran tweeted "Nice one, Bran."

EDIT: Also, that Daenerys arc in the previous episode. I mean, if GRRM were done TWOW, these two past episodes would have been the season six finales.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Aural on May 25, 2016, 12:54:29 am
I take it this is an instance of what comes after determining what came before? Or something else?
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Nil Sertrax on May 25, 2016, 01:20:50 am
Well, there goes free will out the window!
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Aural on May 25, 2016, 10:06:46 pm
What littlefinger tells Sansa about blackish taking revrrrun or reuniting some army is a lie, right?
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on May 25, 2016, 10:21:51 pm
No, I think he was truly scared for his life there and offering to help to regain Sansa's trust.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Aural on May 25, 2016, 10:28:19 pm
Was it confirmed at some point or is that your guess?
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on May 25, 2016, 11:30:17 pm
Was it confirmed at some point or is that your guess?

No, pure speculation and that seems to be MO. He saves his hide at all costs, so he continue in the Game of Thrones.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on May 26, 2016, 02:19:03 pm
My first thought was that it was lie but... I don't know how to read this show anymore.

I read a quoted portion of an interview that suggested that GRRM gave three pieces of information to Weiss and Benioff after they burned through his source material. First was Shireen's Death, the second was "Hold the Door" (which makes me tear up a little), and the third is something that happens in the last episodes of the show's story.

Otherwise, I think it's going to be really interesting to watch the show fumble with the story as it stands - because ultimately I don't think Weiss or Benioff are as good a writer as GRRM (and I didn't like ASOIAF when I tried to read it as a teenager, though GJ has recently sparked my interested in reattempting, as Wilshire did for me regarding Malazan).
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Aural on May 27, 2016, 04:15:44 pm
Yeah, and seeing as Sansa has told Jon and the rest about this and they seem to have bought it I'm guessing it's going to create some problems between Jon and Sansa later once they get fucked by LF.

I had lost interest in GoT around season three/four when the show became a torture porn fiesta. But seeing as the end seems near and things are actually being revealed my interest has been renewed somewhat.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 11, 2016, 12:33:54 am
So who is up to date?

Sounds like we're in for some climatic season ending episodes.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on June 11, 2016, 12:55:02 am
So who is up to date?

Sounds like we're in for some climatic season ending episodes.

I missed Sunday's episode, but have it DVR'd. I have a feeling that the show will be exceedingly different from TWOW. I wonder just how much the producers know. I'm sure they do a little mid-wifery, a là Madness and The Second Apocalypse.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 11, 2016, 01:15:26 am
Lol - midwifery makes some much more sense when you hear it said ;).

But yes, they are definitely going to go off the rails with this show and it'll probably be great but it's not going to be the books and watching GRRM bring resolution to it.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: themerchant on June 13, 2016, 10:20:47 am
It's a trainwreck.

I wonder what GRRM thinks, cause it really is a terrible show. The books are very good, the first 3 are great.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 13, 2016, 06:03:58 pm
Well - this season especially the dialogue and the pacing have been shite; especially compared with GRRM's own pacing (which they've clearly gone full-board ahead of that now).

Actually, I just realized today is Monday. I guess I will watch yesterday's episode soon.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: locke on June 13, 2016, 06:37:08 pm
It's a trainwreck.

I wonder what GRRM thinks, cause it really is a terrible show. The books are very good, the first 3 are great.
The last two books were a train wreck with occasional flashes of brilliance. The show has faithfully replicated that from the books. this season has been stronger than last as they are extricating themselves from the impenetrable narrative knots Martin tied himself in. But the narrative aimlessness of the last two books still.hasnt been completely leached out.

That said beyond the weak plotting of the last two books, the bigger problem us that almost all the conflict is internalized within layers of subterfuge and obfuscation. You can portray some of that on tv, but you'll bog down the narrative like the books. Or you can painfully simplify and externalize all the conflict in really broad scenes, as Aryas faceless man plot (and others) has been handled--but it does stink for book readers in some respects, but they're trying to drive her narrative out of its stasis, otherwise bravos becomes another meereen.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: themerchant on June 14, 2016, 06:57:45 am
My recollection of the books doesn't indicate they are the problem with the quality of the show, considering how often they don't use the books anyway.

I don't watch TV normally. Not seen any of the shows like The Wire/Sopranos/whatever one/ breaking bad. Just watching this to see if anything interesting happens

Watching Game of Thrones is actually amusing. The "Bravosi Biathlon" parkour mixed with knife fights. Faceless men adopting European soccer fan tactics in hunting down prey. I wonder if the glamour of the faceless men was described to the writers as "hey you know in Terminator 2 how the T1000 can change faces etc, that's how the glamour works". Then they took the comparison too far.

I bet the final scene is Euron being told they still have over 400 ships left to build.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 14, 2016, 02:06:54 pm
Pretty weak episode. I guess we'll see how the last couple fare.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on June 17, 2016, 02:42:58 am
I had made a comment to the wife early in the season, that without the books, the producers were hurting for material and it's showing. Last night when we was catching up, she said that it's getting bad, real bad. Some of the dialogue is just.....horrendous.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 17, 2016, 03:09:31 pm
Well, at least we get a crazy episode nine battle.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on June 17, 2016, 07:24:05 pm
Well, at least we get a crazy episode nine battle.

The Battle of Mereen or Winterfell? I so want TWOW to come out before the next season of GoT.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 18, 2016, 02:11:42 am
I'm looking forward to Snow v. Snow.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 25, 2016, 05:04:03 am
I'm looking forward to Snow v. Snow.

That was pretty good, wasn't it?

Since i had just finished reading the white luck warrior before seeing this episode, the chaotic and desperate battle really struck me as a good microcosm version of the desperate battles against the Sranc hordes in that book.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Nil Sertrax on June 25, 2016, 04:40:03 pm
I thought it was a great episode.  Maybe the best of the entire series.  The cinematography and the battle choreography was amazing.  I'd compare it favorably with Braveheart and I'm astounded that this quality can be produced for television.  The budget must have been immense for this episode!
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 25, 2016, 05:30:15 pm
I thought we were going to lose Tormund :o.

The whole sequence with John was so well done - very reminiscent of Children of Men or the mid-season episode of True Detective, which have other noteworthy continuous shot sequences.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 25, 2016, 08:29:25 pm
If you haven't seen it, here is a great behind-the-scenes that shows how they made the battle. A surprising amount of practical work (and horses) was involved:
https://youtu.be/B93k4uhpf7g
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 26, 2016, 10:12:19 pm
Interesting. I look forward to watching this when I get home tonight. Tonight's the finale, yeah?
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: themerchant on June 26, 2016, 11:31:30 pm
When is it on tonight?
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Aural on June 27, 2016, 12:19:28 am
The episode is called The Winds of Winter, which is the name of book six. Interesting.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 27, 2016, 01:09:03 am
When is it on tonight?

9pm ET/MT, themerchant :).

The episode is called The Winds of Winter, which is the name of book six. Interesting.

Indeed. Sounds like we'll see some of what will likely be the climax in TWOW book.

EDIT: I'm an idiot, themerchant, 9pm ET/MT is right now.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 27, 2016, 02:27:12 pm
So... yeah.

Wow. That was an intense episode of television.

Though, the conversation with Daavos and Mesiendre (sp?) was kind of jarring - in I know for a fact I missed many pieces of leadup in other arcs throughout the seasons, as I am apparently not an attention TV viewer, but why didn't Daavos freak out on Mesiendre at any point before now?
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 27, 2016, 04:14:43 pm
So... yeah.

Wow. That was an intense episode of television.

Though, the conversation with Daavos and Mesiendre (sp?) was kind of jarring - in I know for a fact I missed many pieces of leadup in other arcs throughout the seasons, as I am apparently not an attention TV viewer, but why didn't Daavos freak out on Mesiendre at any point before now?

He may have had suspicions, but it wasn't until he found the burnt figurine that he had something resembling proof.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 27, 2016, 04:17:03 pm
Ah, I see. I definitely need to rewatch the series.

I also think I should probably try ASOIAF again - sometime. Future Madness...
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 29, 2016, 12:40:57 am
So rewatched the first episode and a half of S1...

Seeing Jaime reach out to shake John's hand at Winterfell was so fucking disorienting.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 29, 2016, 01:13:51 am
So rewatched the first episode and a half of S1...

Seeing Jaime reach out to shake John's hand at Winterfell was so fucking disorienting.

Yes, I rewatched S1E1 recently as well. (With the Rifftrax audio - http://www.rifftrax.com/game-of-thrones-season-1-episode-1 )  ;D

And speaking of the last episode and the pilot -
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 29, 2016, 02:14:56 pm
I'm very quickly convincing myself that I want to read the books before I want to rewatch the series.

EDIT: Because of those interesting acts of symmetry.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on June 29, 2016, 05:51:29 pm
I've been thinking about a re-read myself. It'll have to wait til after I get a re-read TGO and I'd rather have an idea about when TWOW is coming out. I have a feeling that Martin is finishing A Dream of Spring also. I think that's why he's been pushing it back and back and back.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 29, 2016, 06:24:06 pm
I've been thinking about a re-read myself. It'll have to wait til after I get a re-read TGO and I'd rather have an idea about when TWOW is coming out. I have a feeling that Martin is finishing A Dream of Spring also. I think that's why he's been pushing it back and back and back.

That's quite optimistic of you. I very much doubt it... If we are lucky we'll see TWOW next year. And ADOS? 5-10 years later. GRRM seems to be having problems collecting the story threads towards a conclusion - more and more characters and plots are being added, it seems.

I also suspect that as he has realized that the TV show will finish the story before him (different path but still the same ending), he is no longer in a hurry... Maybe it is just best for him to polish it until he feels the end is just right.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 30, 2016, 01:09:07 pm
It seems like a very unique kind of situation to be in. Just as there's not a very large selection of authors historically who have experienced contemporary online fandoms, surely Martin must be one of the very few authors ever to have had their own story overtaken by their story on a separate medium?
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: themerchant on June 30, 2016, 03:21:14 pm
Basically fan fiction finishing the story for him.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 30, 2016, 04:24:21 pm
It seems like a very unique kind of situation to be in. Just as there's not a very large selection of authors historically who have experienced contemporary online fandoms, surely Martin must be one of the very few authors ever to have had their own story overtaken by their story on a separate medium?

It may be completely a unprecedented situation, I'm not aware of it any other author having an endorsed/official adaption pass him.

Basically fan fiction finishing the story for him.

Certainly fiction, but not "fan fiction" since HBO paid GRRM handsomely for the rights.  :) And they have been told the broad strokes of the ending.

BTW, have you all seen GRRM's original 1993 outline of the ASOIAF story that he was shopping around to publishers? Back then he imagined the story being a trilogy  ;D, and some of the elements of the story has changed *radically* since then. (No spoilers if you have read the books, the endgame is blacked out, but there is so much bizarre stuff):
http://watchersonthewall.com/george-r-r-martins-original-plan-game-thrones/
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: themerchant on June 30, 2016, 08:19:17 pm
I was referring to the lack of quality in comparison to the original. They had the actual text word for word the majority of the run, entering the phase where they now only have broad strokes means i'll sit through another few hours of improbable travel, over acting and random sex scenes so i can get the broad strokes of how the series is going to end. As I don't think Martin is going to finish the series.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 30, 2016, 08:41:18 pm
I was referring to the lack of quality in comparison to the original. They had the actual text word for word the majority of the run, entering the phase where they now only have broad strokes means i'll sit through another few hours of improbable travel, over acting and random sex scenes so i can get the broad strokes of how the series is going to end. As I don't think Martin is going to finish the series.

...which still doesn't make it "fan fiction".  ;) I don't see the chasm of quality difference that you seem to see (everything you mention has been present from the start of the show), but we're probably not going to agree here. And that's OK.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: MSJ on June 30, 2016, 08:53:24 pm
I was referring to the lack of quality in comparison to the original. They had the actual text word for word the majority of the run, entering the phase where they now only have broad strokes means i'll sit through another few hours of improbable travel, over acting and random sex scenes so i can get the broad strokes of how the series is going to end. As I don't think Martin is going to finish the series.

...which still doesn't make it "fan fiction".  ;) I don't see the chasm of quality difference that you seem to see (everything you mention has been present from the start of the show), but we're probably not going to agree here. And that's OK.

I assume, and correct me if I'm wrong themerchant, that he is talking about dialogue. Without the books, and the show has went past DoD, the dialogue is becoming insufferable in some cases. I think they're trying to emulate what GRRM would write, and well, it's really bad sometimes. That's my main critique as of now. Other than that, the past two episodes have been the best of the damn show, if you ask me. Was you asking me? Lol. :)
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: themerchant on June 30, 2016, 09:22:00 pm
I was referring to the lack of quality in comparison to the original. They had the actual text word for word the majority of the run, entering the phase where they now only have broad strokes means i'll sit through another few hours of improbable travel, over acting and random sex scenes so i can get the broad strokes of how the series is going to end. As I don't think Martin is going to finish the series.

...which still doesn't make it "fan fiction".  ;) I don't see the chasm of quality difference that you seem to see (everything you mention has been present from the start of the show), but we're probably not going to agree here. And that's OK.

I'm marking the quality analogous to Fan Fiction. I had no idea there even was an objective literal definition of "fan fiction" , I'd like to see it though :) Where would i find it?

I only watched the first few episodes and sixth series. I started watching it again once it was moving past the books. As i suspect it will be the only portrayal of the end of the books we will see. Hope I'm wrong though.

In the interest of pedantry we'll refer to oxford dictionary.

Fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, film, etc.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Titan on June 30, 2016, 10:39:28 pm
I'm marking the quality analogous to Fan Fiction. I had no idea there even was an objective literal definition of "fan fiction" , I'd like to see it though :) Where would i find it?
...
In the interest of pedantry we'll refer to oxford dictionary.

Fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, film, etc.

I don't want to be pedantic, but "fan fiction" as opposed to "an official/licensed adaptation". That is how virtually anyone would defined the term. Otherwise... we'll anyone writing is a fan of what they write about, I would hope.
(GRRM has made his thoughts about "fan fiction" well known: http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html )
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: themerchant on June 30, 2016, 11:28:53 pm
I'm marking the quality analogous to Fan Fiction. I had no idea there even was an objective literal definition of "fan fiction" , I'd like to see it though :) Where would i find it?
...
In the interest of pedantry we'll refer to oxford dictionary.

Fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, film, etc.

I don't want to be pedantic, but "fan fiction" as opposed to "an official/licensed adaptation". That is how virtually anyone would defined the term. Otherwise... we'll anyone writing is a fan of what they write about, I would hope.
(GRRM has made his thoughts about "fan fiction" well known: http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html )

No that's a fair point in fact, put in those terms the distinction is clear. I hear ya :)
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on July 01, 2016, 03:42:27 pm
I think the point stands though that the writers of the show aren't as skilled at dialogue as GRRM. There is like... one great monologue an episode by characters in the first season, if not more than one. I literally fast-forwarded through some of the monologues in the latter part of season six.

I think the show in the latter season mostly stands on being a very loyal representation in a visual medium specifically. HBO has gotten very good at portrayal over the seasons, which is why the whole opening of the S6 finale can communicate so much with almost no words (though, kudos, Margaery, strong out but you still got played). It's analogous to Martin and Bakker building up so many disparate pieces of their world so they can better wield the associations later - how else can something like the lingering shot of the Sept of Baelor covered in wildfire even work?

I got a used copy of AGOT again so we'll see if I make it farther than halfway through TSOS this time.
Title: Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S6)
Post by: Madness on June 22, 2017, 11:53:33 am
Lmao... almost a year to the day. I have brought that used copy down to my sister's. Maybe I'll start reading it.

New trailer is out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mlhnt0jMlg) and the compulsory breakdown at io9 (http://io9.gizmodo.com/breaking-down-all-the-secrets-and-surprises-of-the-new-1796306320).

My being hyped by this is totally an artifact of having watched the show and learned the book story through the show fandom but the possibility of Cleganebowl is awesome :)!