Aw, you dog, I'm still waiting for my Amazon order to fulfill - I'm sad.

Good stuff, Hiro. The latter link is what you get when a freedom/right requiring civil/competent responsibility is politicized. The former link is what should be happening, the ladder is only designed to get politicians elected at our expense.

Thank you, Madness - Bakker posts here or in 3 pound brain or elsewhere?

okaaaaaaaaay ... Wilshire sent me here and the last post was almost a year ago and appears there was interest in this group designing an RPG from Earwa 3 years ago, but appears the idea sputtered out. Well, that would take some elbow grease to pull off, so no judgement on the fate of that effort coming from me.

In another post, I came across what appears to be a really cool game this group might dig. Kingdom Death: Monsters. It appears to be a board/rpg style game steeped in mad horror with super cool figures ( me thinks the chap who came up with this is a PON fan ). Anyways, won't duplicate everything I posted in other thread ( http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2186.msg33967#msg33967 ), just seeing if any of you know of this game and have an opinion. Cool or not cool? It's pricey stuff, so hoping to get first hand account recommendation on it before I take the plunge.

Friends! Shot in the dark, any board or RPG gamers here? Along the lines of D&D, board and miniature games is what I'm aiming for ( not video/computer - but feel free to jump in to talk up your favorite League of Legends Champion - mine is Kog Maw before they reworked and ruined him ).

I just discovered a board/miniature game that could well pander to our tastes: Kingdom Death: Monsters. It self proclaims to be "A cooperative nightmare horror game experience." The reviews seem to agree it's "masterful, but disturbing" but went sideways on the pinup line of miniatures ( but I like those too, and Beard would LOVE them, hee hee ). Anyways ... any of you cats hear of this thing? It's wicked expensive and wanted some friendlies to give me the skinny before I go down a rabbit hole of dough to find out it's bullshit or I can't find anyone to play it with. Apparently highly complex/high learning curve that well rewards the players' investment.

I was hunting for more cool miniatures for D&D and came across this stuff - these KD figures are the best I've ever seen. Google search on "kingdom death white knight heavy" and click on images and you'll see some wicked stuff ( Beard - you can search on kingdom death pinup images for the "good" stuff  ). Check out the knight with the massive morning star. The detail and creativity of this stuff amazes.

Anyways, any of you play this thing? Is it any good? Worth $1,000+ to get into it? Apparently the core game is out of print, but the dude who created it appears to be raking it in so I'm hoping new printings are released so I can get into it without encroaching on my retirement savings ...

Well, shit...you got me there.

H, you're response was hilarious, actually laughed out loud.

I'm with SOM completely - inspiration so objectively/abjectly presented is manipulation - keep the workers happy and inline. To add, I find the more one prophesizes, the further away they are from it ( e.g. those "believing" in themselves are the most insecure, those "believing" in self love sport the lowest self image, those claiming the loudest they would do anything for their children do the least ). No matter of psychology/beliefs/inspirational message, got to get your ass out there in the world and kick some ass! ( I'm the case in point, my favorite location is the couch resting in climate controlled shelter )

I clicked on this once for understanding. It said "whoever fucks the most wins".

I don't drink.

A PoN forum that doesn’t love guns? WTF!!! And what’s this bullshit about being respectful – the harsher the language, the greater the love where I come from!

Enter … The other … me! Surprise! Well, my friends, I’m from the South – and down here, guns just ain’t a big deal. It’s cosmology. Plenty of people living in the South want gun regulation, not saying we’re all NRA lovin’ groupies ( I’m actually a rare bird who is “pro-gun” but “anti NRA” – get to that in a minute ).

The conversation you’all are having is a political one – which is to say it’s the wrong conversation. Beard touched on some human truths about “research” and “statistics”. Statistics is the worse form of science in that it’s far too overused and under-understood. Just a quick sideline, you’re almost never going to “convince” someone with “statistics”. Why? Because statistics are too shallow a “fact” to share properly. When someone quotes a statistic to another, it has to bypass several good layers of resistance ( and I mean good in both strong and proper they are there ). So, you present me a statistic … well, for me to accept it as a “fact”, it has to survive all of my “walls” protecting myself from manipulation.

1.   I have to trust the source you received it from ( Did the source make a mistake? Did they take a proper sample? Did the source know how to perform a statistical study? In cases of polls, was the question well-crafted to ensure responses are accurate? Is the source a dick trying to fuck people over and made it all up? ).
2.   Then I have to trust you accurately recorded and relayed the statistic to me ( Maybe you made a mistake? ).
3.   Then I have to trust you ( Maybe you made it up and trying to fuck me over ).
4.   Lastly, so most importantly it renders the first 3 walls virtually insignificant, is do I agree with what you’re concluding from the statistic? Maybe it’s just a single relevant data point in a sea of data points when taken together result in a completely different conclusion. Making this up as example, you tell me sports cars are more likely to be in car crashes than non-sports cars – so says a statistic. Turns out there’s another statistic that says red cars due to reduced visibility have more accidents than any other color, but so happens sports cars are more likely to be red than any other color which is not true for non-sports cars ( so happens yellow is most common color for sports cars due to that color highlighting the cool curves of a sports car more so than other colors – again, making up the red thing as example ).

To address MSJ home invasion scenario, almost never happens like that. Home invasions typically occur ( when not by accident by a burglar thinking no one is home when there is ) by a knock at the door and someone putting a gun to your face when you answer … may not undermine your point, but still shows problems with your “statistics”.

To talk turkey with my peeps, fuck statistics, they have no place in the heart of this discussion ( and perhaps, most discussions ). Let’s get to the heart of the matter – wait for it, this is a rich intense delve into the human psyche – we LOVE guns! Crazy, I know, right? We think they’re a blast ( forgive the pun ) and want a lot of them and to have fun with them. Fuck all on the self-defense shit – that’s all politics, not based in reality. Understand, for the average Joe gun owner, you’re talking about restricting something they really like.

Which brings me to why I hate the NRA. The NRA has become a political tool, which ironically ( tragically to gun owners ) puts gun ownership at risk. How do we know it’s no longer a social organization and is now a pure political one? After Sandyhook ( and maybe before then, can’t remember ), the NRA’s stance was the root cause was mental illness, not gun ownership – for which I agree. But it stopped there – because to do the socially responsible thing AND retain gun ownership rights, they would have pushed for legislation to fund mental health services to the public at large ( one could make a convincing argument everyone could benefit from therapy ). But that flies in the face of the larger Republican meme of lowering Federal taxes and spending. So they didn’t – that move could have helped gun owners big time. Instead, they derailed down this path for which MSJ did a very nice job of explaining the truth of the reality of using guns for self-defense – it is, to put it scientifically, bullshit. To argue effective wide spread self-defense with guns is wishing too much of situations and people; even if you are quite skilled with a gun and even if you’re in a position to employ the gun without harm to others around you ( some big if’s there already ), you don’t have the experience to on the fly in a fire fight to not shoot up everything/everyone around the shooter before taking out the shooter. And the war games gun owners like to play does not translate to real world fire fight situations ( only real world fight fights lends experience to effectively engage in real world fire fights ). Sorry, Beard, but MSJ is right – having a gun for self-defense poses much more hazard than utility. And the argument to arm all of society is inane and inadvertently supports the anti-gun stance. We want the right to own a gun because we feel like having one. Well, the obverse is true, people who don’t want them, shouldn’t have to have one themselves. By arguing for more guns, NRA is conceding the problem with mass shootings are the guns, just different approach to the problem. If the problem is guns, obviously less would be better. Being from the South, it’s plain as day to me the problem is mental illness and we should expand psychiatric services big time if we want to reduce many of society ills including mass murders. The NRA has given you an “in” by putting forth the idiotic arm all of society argument. The rich data and saturated awareness of our incompetence supports restricting gun ownership far more convincingly than arming the population. And if the incompetence argument doesn’t hit home, then simply “fuck you, I’m not carrying a gun because I don’t feel like it” should win the argument, rooted in the same “freedom” logic that is so touted by the NRA. More evidence NRA sucks is their fight against ANY gun legislation – prohibiting no-fly list persons is common sense, but that would give a “win” to Democrats, further weakening them and by proxy, needlessly putting gun owners at risk of losing their guns. The NRA is your friend, liberals! You just don’t see it yet.

In short – I am pro-gun ownership in spite of the political nonsense being thrown around the room … on both sides. Self-defense and hunting are not the REAL reasons we want guns – we want guns because we like them. We don’t walk out of our house “wondering” whose packing. We simply don’t have a fear of guns down here. Accidents happen and that sucks, big time. Violent crime happens and that sucks too. But taking away something we love and don’t feel the fear of it taking society down at the knees, so we want to keep them. Plenty more people die in car crashes and no one is talking about taking our cars away. You want to reduce traffic deaths – make the speed limit 40 miles an hour max and you will reduce traffic deaths, big time. Why don’t we? Because the tragedy of car crashes does not rise to the level of wanting to restrict my freedom/elbow movement/love of driving and getting to my destination faster. Everything has a price and simply put, some the costs of some freedoms are worth the benefits.

Not that it’s anyone’s business ( I don’t publicly announce my personal gun ownership situation ), but I do not own a gun for the reasons MSJ details – the odds of an accident in my house are small, but I do all I can to minimize accidental risks to my children ( same logic for keeping toilet lids down when a 2 year old is walking around, pool fences, etc ). Don’t own wild animals ( snakes ), etc. BUT – it’s in my bones, I like guns and have many friends who own them and don’t even think about it. The mass tragedies haven’t “scared the shit out of me”. It’s terrible, but the rate of gun violence and accidents hasn’t risen to the level of abandonment to “turn” me and support strong gun legislation.