[Cüréthañ]

When I first read the series, I thought for the longest time that the No-God was simply a bomb and the Consult were just morons that worshipped it as a god like those nutters in one of the Planet of the Apes movies. I thought the whole thing about creating the NG and whatnot and descriptions of his carapace were just creative ways of saying they were researching some kind of bomb and the womb-plague that made everyone infertile was simply some byproduct of it like radiation. Funnily enough, I thought the stuff at the Battleplain was the result of Seswatha accidentally detonating the No-God and releasing magical fallout everywhere. It seems really funny now but that was my first impression all those years ago

This never occurred to me--No-God as Nuke.  The Consult plan (if they had one) was to put it in the right spot at the right time, but Seswatha foiled it?  I like this idea!

I think this is pretty close actually.  The war didn't end when the no-god walked, after all.  Still had to reduce the population to 144k, which I estimate was just about to happen at Mengeda.  There's no other reason for the No-god to take the field really.

[mrganondorf]

Near 144k sounds so small for the population of a continent!  I thought the NG took the field because he was running out of sranc and the conquest of the 3seas could not be achieved without Mog directly terrorizing the opposition.  After 11 years and no heron spear, Mog or whoever is controlling it could be vulnerable to hubris.

[Cüréthañ]

The consult was in open warfare with the Kiniuri for 23 years before they summoned Mog.  The North was then crushed over the next 12 years until they mankind was driven to the very edge of the inhabited continent.  And remember, no children were born during the time the no-god was on the material plane.  The sranc had no such problems, indeed they seem fecund and likely reproduced even faster when driven by Mog's will.

I think it not far-fetched to suppose that the majority of males remaining able to walk and hold a spear in Earwa were in Anaxophus V's army.  There were no children below the age of 13 left at this point.

The glossary does state that attrition forced Mog to the field, but I think it was the attrition of men, not sranc, and that the transformation of the battleplain to a topos was the prelude to the culmination of the consult's final solution rather than the result of Mog's destruction.

[Wilshire]

Kosotor I also thought the NG was some kind of bomb, or at least his death seemed an awful lot like a detonated nuke.

A prophet of himself.

Favorite.

[mrganondorf]

The consult was in open warfare with the Kiniuri for 23 years before they summoned Mog.  The North was then crushed over the next 12 years until they mankind was driven to the very edge of the inhabited continent.  And remember, no children were born during the time the no-god was on the material plane.  The sranc had no such problems, indeed they seem fecund and likely reproduced even faster when driven by Mog's will.

I think it not far-fetched to suppose that the majority of males remaining able to walk and hold a spear in Earwa were in Anaxophus V's army.  There were no children below the age of 13 left at this point.

The glossary does state that attrition forced Mog to the field, but I think it was the attrition of men, not sranc, and that the transformation of the battleplain to a topos was the prelude to the culmination of the consult's final solution rather than the result of Mog's destruction.

You worked it out more than I had.  I can go along with this if we are talking about the population of Earwe being what the Consult would consider near their goal.  That number could be a lot higher than 144k, but so low that the Consult think the rest of the pop will quickly wither.

EDIT: I guess I have always assumed that the 144k thing was more of decoy than anything else.  I think this bit from an interview got me thinking that way:

Q: In THE WHITE-LUCK WARRIOR we get some hints about the stakes that are being played for, the notion that the Consult want to reduce the population of Earwa to a specific decimal number which has Biblical significance. Was your intention here to draw a direct parallel between the story of Kellhus and the Great Ordeal and that Biblical source, or was it merely an easter egg and the correlation itself is not significant?

A: Is an ‘easter egg’ the same thing as a herring? If so, there’s a whole whap of them in the books.

http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-r-scott-bakker-interview-part-1.html

[locke]

Q: In THE WHITE-LUCK WARRIOR we get some hints about the stakes that are being played for, the notion that the Consult want to reduce the population of Earwa to a specific decimal number which has Biblical significance. Was your intention here to draw a direct parallel between the story of Kellhus and the Great Ordeal and that Biblical source, or was it merely an easter egg and the correlation itself is not significant?

Questions like these are so easy to dodge, the construction gives the answerer any of a bajillion outs to avoid answering it, as Bakker did.  But we always get Questions with these kind of constructions because it flatters the question writer, who wants to show off his or her personal theories and also is hoping for validation if right and all the warm fuzzies and bragging rights that come along with the validation.

[Wic]

Maybe it's a red herring for the inchoroi, who simply have a religious belief that 144k is the number to hit. 

[Wilshire]

Q: In THE WHITE-LUCK WARRIOR we get some hints about the stakes that are being played for, the notion that the Consult want to reduce the population of Earwa to a specific decimal number which has Biblical significance. Was your intention here to draw a direct parallel between the story of Kellhus and the Great Ordeal and that Biblical source, or was it merely an easter egg and the correlation itself is not significant?

Questions like these are so easy to dodge, the construction gives the answerer any of a bajillion outs to avoid answering it, as Bakker did.  But we always get Questions with these kind of constructions because it flatters the question writer, who wants to show off his or her personal theories and also is hoping for validation if right and all the warm fuzzies and bragging rights that come along with the validation.

I'd love that kind of validation myself But Bakker has spent so long concealing the conclusion I just don't believe he would be 'tricked' into giving out information.... Though he did notably slip the name of Mek, but I don't think that's particularly important, a minor infraction at best.

[mrganondorf]

Maybe it's a red herring for the inchoroi, who simply have a religious belief that 144k is the number to hit. 

I like this idea.  Perhaps TUC will reveal some kind of scripture that the inchoroi hold sacred.  Their own Tusk in the golden room.  Mounted just above the inverse fire.  Stockings at Christmas.

[mrganondorf]

My personal nerdanel for the end of the series is that Kellhus is not trying to become the NG at all despite what so many people seem to think but the opposite. I've figured souls work kind of like souls do in the Warhammer universe (if you pledge your soul to X god, it becomes part of X god, making it stronger) and that Kellhus is trying to do what the Emperor did and convince loads of people to worship him as a god and dedicate their souls to him. By feeding on those souls, he can gain power in the outside and become a god himself and then enact TTT through the hearts and minds of all people. Everyone will worship him as a god when he dies (probably at the end of the series), with the Zeumi prince going home to spread the good word of the Aspect Emperor's heroic sacrifice for all humanity. Everyone worships him, he gets to not only not be damned but to feast on everyone's soul and blot out all the other gods so only he remains. By pledging their souls to him, sorcerers escape eternal damnation...meaning what he said is kind of true and he is a prophet. A prophet of himself.

I like this, but I'm wondering if old Moe/dunyain are counting on Kellhus to pursue this path and are intending to use him as a kind of divine stepping stone.  They needed someone with Dunyain talent but also with a something they couldn't tolerate, madness/desire/whatever.

[mrganondorf]

New crazy: Serwa will give birth to a nonman who will be raised by Meppa as an eyeless Cishaurim.

[mrganondorf]

The ordeal will founder at Dagliash.  Some type of elaborate double cross with the nonmen who are allied with the consult. Kellhus has anticipated it and fakes his death and heads to Golgotteroth, possibly with the remnants of the Mandate and some of the Swayali (the destruction of the Mandate's army was a deliberate sacrifice to convince the Consult they are spent).  The Ordeal will be besieged at Dagliash, subsisting on Sranc meat and fanatacism.  Lead by Proyas (who knows Kellhus isn't dead) they will hold out, keeping the consult busy.  Kayutas will be key to stopping the skin spies from infiltrating.

Skin spies can't hide in an Anasurimbor's presence, but I'm hoping for at least one scene where a skin spy causes a major disruption by impersonating an Anasurimbor!

[Wilshire]

The ordeal will founder at Dagliash.  Some type of elaborate double cross with the nonmen who are allied with the consult. Kellhus has anticipated it and fakes his death and heads to Golgotteroth, possibly with the remnants of the Mandate and some of the Swayali (the destruction of the Mandate's army was a deliberate sacrifice to convince the Consult they are spent).  The Ordeal will be besieged at Dagliash, subsisting on Sranc meat and fanatacism.  Lead by Proyas (who knows Kellhus isn't dead) they will hold out, keeping the consult busy.  Kayutas will be key to stopping the skin spies from infiltrating.

Skin spies can't hide in an Anasurimbor's presence, but I'm hoping for at least one scene where a skin spy causes a major disruption by impersonating an Anasurimbor!

That is a brilliant idea. With The Ordeal as large as it is, there may be brief opportunities for that. Maybe that is why they where Nimil, something rare enough that it adds more difficult in replacing one of the Anasurimbor (even for just a brief time) without notice.

[Somnambulist]

That is a brilliant idea. With The Ordeal as large as it is, there may be brief opportunities for that. Maybe that is why they where Nimil, something rare enough that it adds more difficult in replacing one of the Anasurimbor (even for just a brief time) without notice.

I think the Consult, with their large contingent of nonmen allies, would have no problem getting ahold of more nimil than Kel has access to...    But I dig the idea, nonetheless.

[mrganondorf]

Like the advent of undetectable face-dancers in Dune, TUC sees the revelation of super skin spies!  Maybe old Moe knowing both how to work skin spies and the limits of Dunyain ability could swing it.  Maybe Kellhus + Teckne.  Maybe Dunyain turned years ago.  It would be just like them to have a layered skin spy system--some to be seen to convince the Anarsurimbors that they can still detect the abominations.

TWIST: TUC ends with every human on the planet being replaced with a skin spy hard wired to keep the farce of history going.