Quote from: Sausuna on August 29, 2017, 10:25:15 pm

Why? The No-God was called the prosthesis of the Ark. Oar for the Ark. Seems pretty clear.

I agree. Oars are referred to as (driving) parts of the Ark, the No-God is the prosthesis of the Ark at a time when its original Oars are no longer operational. Considering the terms given in the narrative, it's hard to ascribe the word another meaning.

The Horde of the No-God is never referred to as the Oar, and it was talked about in the narrative for ages.

I agree that the Oar is referring to the No-God, but its pretty aggravating that even when answering questions, RSB answers using a term that has never been applied to anything else in the book and so causes more confusion.  I know he is all into philosophy and uncertainty, but his tendency to be unable to even answer a straightforward question in a straightforward many has frustrated me several times.

And the meaninglessness succeeds! Such a thing is almost anathema to human thought, since we are the ones prescribing meaning to what is essentially just machinery upon machinery.

One vehicle for meaninglessness succeeds.  As the RSB himself says, Khellus is another vehicle for meaninglessness in a meaningful world.  So I don't think it was unreasonable for someone to consider Khellus victorious another avenue for meaninglessness to be victorious.  Or to think that Khellus succeeding is still not an inversion of trope. 

I am definitely a fantasy genre reader, and I am someone who needs closure (the Marvel movie universe drives me nuts because I want something to END, not continue forever).  So while I have had those two things working "against" me with this series, it has been a series I have absolutely loved and recommended to dozens of friends and family.  It is difficult to determine what parts of my disappointment are based in Khellus being killed, since I have been obsessed with his character since TDTCB, and what parts are due to the lack of closure of certain narrative threads.  But in the end, I am currently not only hesitant to suggest these books now, but part of me wants to warn the friends who are reading it from the beginning.  PON was amazing and may be my go to in the long run, but TUC was an exercise in frustration and disappointment for me.  There have been many comparisons between TTT and TUC across several threads, but to me, they serve as antithesis to each other from a catharsis perspective.  TTT satisfyingly concluded that series, where TUC does not.

I'm actually getting curious to know what various endings people were anticipating or would have preferred after the fact?

I wanted to see Khellus defeat the consult, but only as a means to the end of defeating the true bad guys in the series, the gods.  I wanted to see Khellus subdue the gods and save Earwa.  Call me an idealist.  LOL.  I would have been happy with Khellus winning but then turning out to be a bad dude who enslaves the earth (and it really looked like that was the way it was gonna go for a minute and I was fine with that), but that first one was my ideal ending.  It wasn't necessarily my expected ending, but it would have made me the most happy.

Sings sorcery through the Collar !

Confirmed in our Q&A thread here - I've been saying that for time though. All Sorweel does is remove the gag.

DANG!  That's awesome.  I have had trouble with 1) keeping up with all the Q and A's and 2) finding information referenced in the Q and A's even after I know they are there.  Example:  I read on a thread that in the Reddit AMA RSB confirmed that Khellus found a way to hide his soul from Ajokli, but I read the whole thing and never saw that referenced in there at all. 

Maybe Bakker's flaw as an author is that he thinks his readers are as clever as he thinks he is?

This made me LOL.  I hope my post didn't come across more negative than I actually feel.  I will admit I was hoping the trope inversion would involve Khellus winning but not being the hero the trope would have had.  So when he got salted I was pretty said and I'm still hoping he made it through somehow.  And I have really tried to find all the silver linings.  My feelings are disappointed, frustrated, sad, but my brain is seeing how this series has made me analyze the way I read and interact with books and also the way I put maybe too much stock in the ending instead of the journey, and helped me see that maybe I should be putting more stock in the experience that takes years and years than in the end that takes 10 minutes.  It had made me think, which I know was at least part of his goal.  I just still have these pesty feelings. 

Having said it in other places, I'll be brief. I agree with the "What the hell?" sentiment for TUC's end overall. I was loving the first half of the book, but as soon as the attack on the Ark begins, I was feeling a bit let down. I was expecting more of a look into the Ark and Golgotterath itself, more of what the stories and Akka's Dreams had made me envision. We didn't really get any of that; just a lot of fighting outside of it and a look into the Golden Room.

Many of the plotlines that were set up aren't concluded (Crabicus, Ciphrang Assassin, Meppa, to name a few off the top of my head), and that's without acknowledging that the book creates a huge amount of questions at the end without explaining any of them. I think the ending would have felt more satisfying if it all hadn't happened so fast. However, right as you're expecting to get all of the answers, the entire plot turns on its head and the book ends.

Now, I love the way the story concludes by itself. The last line gives me chills. I think ending the story on disaster like this is awesome. I just wish that it had felt more coherent and less rushed. Keeping in mind that this is the conclusion to a series of books, I feel a bit cheated. I think you're going to get this opinion from most people who aren't aware that a third series might be written (Just take a look at the Goodreads reviews- they read much like OP's post and don't seem to know there is a planned third series).

I think if Bakker were to come out and say, "Yes there will definitely be a third series", I would feel better about it. As it stands, I liked the book a lot, but I have very mixed feelings about the ending.

THIS.  Are Akka and his ladies alive?  Is Kayutas alive?  With no Chorae in the Carapace, why didn't they just sorcery it down?  What's going on with Malowebi's body?  What about crab hand, and Meppa?  What about the light spear?  Its down there at the base of the horn somewhere.  There were just WAY too many loose ends for me to feel satisfaction finishing the series.  If there is more, then I'm ok with the loose ends, but if not...  I would be very sad, because this has been by far my favorite book series I have ever read and this kind of anti-climactic, quick ending would be a great disappointment to me as a reader.  Even though I was a staunch Khellus supporter, I even ok with him having died because of a miscalculation (although I hope he is still working from the Outside and that it was his plan all along to eventually be working exclusively from the Outside).  But I feel no CLOSURE.

I read that section as "he wants to strike her, but he is so influenced by her that he couldn't bring himself to do it, even though every bit of him wants to."  So he started the motion, but stopped himself mid strike "as if his wrists were strung"  His groaning is him realizing how ensnared he is.