[TGO SPOILERS] Kellhus

  • 66 Replies
  • 21872 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2874
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2016, 12:23:59 pm »
Hey guys,

My view has always been that Serwe and the Circumfix broke Kellhus. The World Moved Kellhus, he went mad and became a Dunyain defective.

I'm not sue if Kellhus as we knew him from earlier PoV's would be recognisable anymore though.

Another question - how do you guys see the scene where Kellhus tells the Ordeal to flee? Do you see this as humanity coming through or something more sinister?

I definitely am convinced by Theliopa's evaluation of Kellhus, that there is no Kellhus, he is simply what he needs to be in the moment.

What appears to us (and for some, appeals to us) as his compassion, his humanity, is nothing more than the tail end of his practicality.  Saving the parts he needs, disposing of, or letting be disposed of, the rest is all part of walking the Shortest Path.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2874
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2016, 12:31:41 pm »
Would anyone mind giving the exact quote that Serwe is, in her way, the most important character in the series?  Pretty please.

Thanks.

Well, it's been Locke's position for a long time, I'm sure you can search his posts to find more that he's said.

Scott did recently say this though, kind of affirming her position of importance:

Serwe is an important cipher in the books. Kellhus is not above chicanery. There's not much more I can say without getting deeper into either, which I don't want to do until the series is completed.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 2297
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2016, 02:23:35 pm »
Would anyone mind giving the exact quote that Serwe is, in her way, the most important character in the series?  Pretty please.

Thanks.

He also said something along those same lines in an interview awhile back. Its in the curated thread.

ETA: found it

Quote
But it was the innocence part, that struck me as the most significant and the most
redemptive. Without giving too much away, there is a manner in which Serwe is the most
important character in the book.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 02:29:24 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 2297
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2016, 02:51:45 pm »

I definitely am convinced by Theliopa's evaluation of Kellhus, that there is no Kellhus, he is simply what he needs to be in the moment.

What appears to us (and for some, appeals to us) as his compassion, his humanity, is nothing more than the tail end of his practicality.  Saving the parts he needs, disposing of, or letting be disposed of, the rest is all part of walking the Shortest Path.

I seen the humanity coming before TGO, so none of it suprises me, does appeal though. Here is what I've heard no one try to explain. Why did Kellhus come back to Momemn? Before TGO, I said I thought he would come back he wouldn't leave them to ruin and everyone points to his and Proyas's talk and says never. He's abandoned them, it's the Shortest Path. So the Shortest Path has changed? Or, is he finding that as he aproachs the Absolute, the emotions are ineveitable? Isn't that what Koringhus teaches us?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 2297
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2016, 06:39:22 pm »

Another question - how do you guys see the scene where Kellhus tells the Ordeal to flee? Do you see this as humanity coming through or something more sinister?

Those scenes before Dagliash definitely have me feeling that the Meat is definitely effecting Kellhus. The one scene where he is above the Ordeal and each person can hear him is utterly insane. And doesn't Proyas and Saubon remark that the Meat has taking him? Also, when he told them to flee, I believe he was just trying to save as many as possible.

Did Kellhus know the bomb was in Viri? I just thought he brought it up by accident.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2874
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2016, 02:45:27 am »
I seen the humanity coming before TGO, so none of it suprises me, does appeal though. Here is what I've heard no one try to explain. Why did Kellhus come back to Momemn? Before TGO, I said I thought he would come back he wouldn't leave them to ruin and everyone points to his and Proyas's talk and says never. He's abandoned them, it's the Shortest Path. So the Shortest Path has changed? Or, is he finding that as he aproachs the Absolute, the emotions are ineveitable? Isn't that what Koringhus teaches us?

I'm really not sure.  Perhaps it did change, in light of the Tekne Nuke?  Let's not forget his claim to see visions that he apparently listens to, but "ceases to trust."  Perhaps the visions said to go back?  To create Ciphrang-Malowebi in order to convert, or disable Zeum?  Or to capture Meppa?

Or even that Esmenet was not done being useful?

You know I am clouded with doubt that Kellhus is at all the "good guy" and so I am skeptical that this was at all some humane act.  Between the visions he claims guide him and Theli's appraisal, I find much to compound my own suspicions.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 2297
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2016, 03:38:17 am »
See, I think Kellhus knows everything about the Zero-God and how to obtain the Absolute. I think he cares about humanity because he knows what awaits them in the Outside. But, you know, Thelli is right, Kellhus is whoever he needs to be at that moment. It what he has to do. He has to be a lying, manipulative S.O.B. because he is fighting a war not only with the Consult, but with the Gods. The TTT and how he took over an Empire and became what he now is, is all built on lies. It's what the Dunyain are, and Moe was Dunyain, Kellhus is more. I think there will be a scene with him and Akka in TUC where he explains all this. That he broke on the Circumfix, seen how his manipulations had killed an innocent, one he cares for. But he had also grasped the TT, and had no choice but to continue down that path to stop the Consult and the Gods. His actions are at odds with his emotions, but they have to be with what he has to do. That's why we only catch rare glimpses of them, because he cannot let them rule him entirely.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,