[H]

Excellent! Thanks for looking that up, H.

So it sounds like the Tall may be intact enough to give it one last round with the Consult.

Does anyone suppose we are going to see Mekertirig in TUC? If Kellhus ran into him in TDTCB, then it seems like they should logically meet up again.

Luckily that one was easy to find, haha.  Ebook can't get here soon enough!

I'd bet we do see him again.  However, I could easily see him being too aloof to be found.  It would be kind of neat if Akka and Mimara ran into him though.  I wonder, is he that much more powerful than Akka with the Gnosis?  My guess would be yes...

[profgrape]

Excellent! Thanks for looking that up, H.

So it sounds like the Tall may be intact enough to give it one last round with the Consult.

Does anyone suppose we are going to see Mekertirig in TUC? If Kellhus ran into him in TDTCB, then it seems like they should logically meet up again.

Luckily that one was easy to find, haha.  Ebook can't get here soon enough!

I'd bet we do see him again.  However, I could easily see him being too aloof to be found.  It would be kind of neat if Akka and Mimara ran into him though.  I wonder, is he that much more powerful than Akka with the Gnosis?  My guess would be yes...

From the Shae dream, I was convinced that we'd at least get a Mek cameo in the Akka/Mimara thread.  Although the cameo we did get (Cnaiur) I wouldn't trade for all the Mek's in Golgatterath.

[Blackstone]

Excellent! Thanks for looking that up, H.

So it sounds like the Tall may be intact enough to give it one last round with the Consult.

Does anyone suppose we are going to see Mekertirig in TUC? If Kellhus ran into him in TDTCB, then it seems like they should logically meet up again.

Luckily that one was easy to find, haha.  Ebook can't get here soon enough!

I'd bet we do see him again.  However, I could easily see him being too aloof to be found.  It would be kind of neat if Akka and Mimara ran into him though.  I wonder, is he that much more powerful than Akka with the Gnosis?  My guess would be yes...

That would be my guess as well, but I feel like the False Sun did give us a hint that a human can be more powerful that a nonman.

[H]

That would be my guess as well, but I feel like the False Sun did give us a hint that a human can be more powerful that a nonman.

Indeed, I loved the part of TGO where Kellhus name-drops Titirga.  Although I think he is right in his assessment, he is indeed more powerful than Titirga.  Shae is probably less powerful than Titirga, even still alive as he is.  I would think that Seswatha is slightly more powerful than Aurang or Aurax.

So, where does Akka fit?  I'm not sure, I would think he isn't quite as strong as Serwa, or Saccarees.  It would seem he wasn't really quite as strong as Cleric and presumably Mek was stronger than him?  I would guess that puts Akka somewhere in the neighborhood of the top 10 most powerful sorcerers alive, but certainly closer to number 10 then even 5.  Something like:

1. Kellhus
2. Shae
3. Aurang
4. Aurax
5. Mek
6. Serwa
7. Saccarees
8. Akka

[Blackstone]

That would be my guess as well, but I feel like the False Sun did give us a hint that a human can be more powerful that a nonman.

Indeed, I loved the part of TGO where Kellhus name-drops Titirga.  Although I think he is right in his assessment, he is indeed more powerful than Titirga.  Shae is probably less powerful than Titirga, even still alive as he is.  I would think that Seswatha is slightly more powerful than Aurang or Aurax.

So, where does Akka fit?  I'm not sure, I would think he isn't quite as strong as Serwa, or Saccarees.  It would seem he wasn't really quite as strong as Cleric and presumably Mek was stronger than him?  I would guess that puts Akka somewhere in the neighborhood of the top 10 most powerful sorcerers alive, but certainly closer to number 10 then even 5.  Something like:

1. Kellhus
2. Shae
3. Aurang
4. Aurax
5. Mek
6. Serwa
7. Saccarees
8. Akka

That seems like an accurate estimation. Akka doesn't have the Metagnosis, so he would be less powerful that Serwa and Saccarees.
It seems like at Dagliash, when Saccarees went one-on-one with Aurang, he threw a powerful Metagnostic can't at Aurang and it did nothing. That doesn't bode will for the GO.

I think I would put Mek under any of the Metagnostics though.

[H]

That seems like an accurate estimation. Akka doesn't have the Metagnosis, so he would be less powerful that Serwa and Saccarees.
It seems like at Dagliash, when Saccarees went one-on-one with Aurang, he threw a powerful Metagnostic can't at Aurang and it did nothing. That doesn't bode will for the GO.

I think I would put Mek under any of the Metagnostics though.

Yeah, that is probably more correct, even though he might have more "pure meaning" to his Cants the meta-Gnosis is probably still more powerful.

Aurax is a toss-up, we really don't know what he knows, but I have a feeling the Aurang somehow knows something of the Aporos, among other things, making him probably the trickiest of all of them.  Heck, he might even be more dangerous than Shae.

[profgrape]

That seems like an accurate estimation. Akka doesn't have the Metagnosis, so he would be less powerful that Serwa and Saccarees.
It seems like at Dagliash, when Saccarees went one-on-one with Aurang, he threw a powerful Metagnostic can't at Aurang and it did nothing. That doesn't bode will for the GO.

I think I would put Mek under any of the Metagnostics though.

Yeah, that is probably more correct, even though he might have more "pure meaning" to his Cants the meta-Gnosis is probably still more powerful.

Aurax is a toss-up, we really don't know what he knows, but I have a feeling the Aurang somehow knows something of the Aporos, among other things, making him probably the trickiest of all of them.  Heck, he might even be more dangerous than Shae.

As the current head of the Ish Quya, The Lord of Swans is probably a badass-of-rank as well. 

[H]

As the current head of the Ish Quya, The Lord of Swans is probably a badass-of-rank as well. 

Oh, yeah, duh, knew I was forgetting someone.  There could even be a couple of other Quya that could make the list really, if we knew who they were.

[Garet Jax]

That seems like an accurate estimation. Akka doesn't have the Metagnosis, so he would be less powerful that Serwa and Saccarees.
It seems like at Dagliash, when Saccarees went one-on-one with Aurang, he threw a powerful Metagnostic can't at Aurang and it did nothing. That doesn't bode will for the GO.

I think I would put Mek under any of the Metagnostics though.

I read that portion as Seswatha taking over Saccarees in a similar fashion as Akka in the Library. Which makes the fruitless attack all the more troublesome for TGO in my opinion.

Also, in another thread way back, I brought up Akka's use as Qirri as a possible means to "level the playing field with meta-gnostic's".  Not that he necessarily made the conceptual leaps to the MG, just that it somehow has elevated him... for what it is worth.  People us the "Cleric Suicide" as an example of Akka's strength, while it gives good measure, it says he sang nothing but wards while his title in the mandate (my phrasing) was War Cant Master or something.  That makes me feel Akka is a lot more dangerous on the offensive than the encounter with Cleric seems to suggest.

Back to Isterebinth, was there ever an approximation given on how many of The Tall there were?  Lastborn tells us a dozen "intact", but that doesn't seem to take into the account any of The Tall that may or may not be offended by the "Vile" circumstances taking place.


EDIT:  Well now that I read my first sentence out loud, Seswatha being in the drivers seat in that confrontation could have possibly hindered Saccarees MG abilities.

[H]

I read that portion as Seswatha taking over Saccarees in a similar fashion as Akka in the Library. Which makes the fruitless attack all the more troublesome for TGO in my opinion.

Also, in another thread way back, I brought up Akka's use as Qirri as a possible means to "level the playing field with meta-gnostic's".  Not that he necessarily made the conceptual leaps to the MG, just that it somehow has elevated him... for what it is worth.  People us the "Cleric Suicide" as an example of Akka's strength, while it gives good measure, it says he sang nothing but wards while his title in the mandate (my phrasing) was War Cant Master or something.  That makes me feel Akka is a lot more dangerous on the offensive than the encounter with Cleric seems to suggest.

Indeed.  I mean, honestly, the list is pretty sketchy after Kellhus really, haha.  I still have doubts if Akka is stronger than any meta-Gnosic, Qirri or no Qirri, but he may well be stronger than any of the Nonmen left.  Or not, haha.  It's really difficult to place it all really, since we have such little information that doesn't involve some extenuation circumstance, like the Seswatha-spirit-inhabiting.

Back to Isterebinth, was there ever an approximation given on how many of The Tall there were?  Lastborn tells us a dozen "intact", but that doesn't seem to take into the account any of The Tall that may or may not be offended by the "Vile" circumstances taking place.

I don't recall there ever being an actual estimation of the number.  My guess would be something like, "no more than a handful" but that's based on nothing at all really, just the idea that there couldn't have been all that many to begin with.

[Blackstone]

EDIT:  Well now that I read my first sentence out loud, Seswatha being in the drivers seat in that confrontation could have possibly hindered Saccarees MG abilities.

This is a distinct possibility.

I read that portion as Seswatha taking over Saccarees in a similar fashion as Akka in the Library. Which makes the fruitless attack all the more troublesome for TGO in my opinion.

Also, in another thread way back, I brought up Akka's use as Qirri as a possible means to "level the playing field with meta-gnostic's".  Not that he necessarily made the conceptual leaps to the MG, just that it somehow has elevated him... for what it is worth.  People us the "Cleric Suicide" as an example of Akka's strength, while it gives good measure, it says he sang nothing but wards while his title in the mandate (my phrasing) was War Cant Master or something.  That makes me feel Akka is a lot more dangerous on the offensive than the encounter with Cleric seems to suggest.

Indeed.  I mean, honestly, the list is pretty sketchy after Kellhus really, haha.  I still have doubts if Akka is stronger than any meta-Gnosic, Qirri or no Qirri, but he may well be stronger than any of the Nonmen left.  Or not, haha.  It's really difficult to place it all really, since we have such little information that doesn't involve some extenuation circumstance, like the Seswatha-spirit-inhabiting.

Back to Isterebinth, was there ever an approximation given on how many of The Tall there were?  Lastborn tells us a dozen "intact", but that doesn't seem to take into the account any of The Tall that may or may not be offended by the "Vile" circumstances taking place.

I don't recall there ever being an actual estimation of the number.  My guess would be something like, "no more than a handful" but that's based on nothing at all really, just the idea that there couldn't have been all that many to begin with.

Based on nothing concrete, I'd also say a handful. The Tall were nonman heroes, so it would make sense that there wouldn't be tons of them to begin with, and it doesn't seem like there are a bunch of "normies" left either (the dozen intact and about 100 that are about to step off the deep end in my estimation).

[MSJ]

Sorweel is easily becoming one of my favorite characters. He just has so much room to grow. I love when Orinaral explains to him that if he isn't for the Consult, then Kellhus is his Saviour. Reading that, you could almost feel the conflict in his mind in heart. Following him into the Holy Deep has to be some of the best visuals I've ever had reading a book, Ishtinbererith and the horrors of it, just comes to life. In my mind, what Sorweel has learned through Orinaral and finally Orinaus is enough for him to shed Yatwer's hold on him. I think that now he knows who the true enemy is, Golgoterreth.

Serwa is a bad, bad woman. Her singing and that keeping the Torturer at bay and at odds with his self was brilliant. I don't agree that she was doing any mundane singing there at the end when Sorweel took out the gag. My reading is that she is sacrificing herself to the wishes of her father, "show them my dread portion" i.e. the MetaGnosis. I venture to say only Sorweel and Moe Jr. make it out. If she does, I have absolutely no idea how.

Moe Jr. has just been transformed into his true father. Physically and mentally. Probably won't be much that will compare to the horror inflicted on him in Ishtinbererith. And, if he wasn't nuts before, well, look out.

I agree with Som that we'll see the Tall and what others who realize their folly come to the aid of TGO, on the Fields Appaling.  And, man what a scene that will be.

[profgrape]

Serwa is a bad, bad woman. Her singing and that keeping the Torturer at bay and at odds with his self was brilliant. I don't agree that she was doing any mundane singing there at the end when Sorweel took out the gag. My reading is that she is sacrificing herself to the wishes of her father, "show them my dread portion" i.e. the MetaGnosis. I venture to say only Sorweel and Moe Jr. make it out. If she does, I have absolutely no idea how.

On my second red, I thought it was obvious that she was about to unleash hell.  I don't think it'll be a sacrifice, either -- I think she's about to make some bodies turn cold.

[MSJ]

On my second red, I thought it was obvious that she was about to unleash hell.  I don't think it'll be a sacrifice, either -- I think she's about to make some bodies turn cold.

How do you think she'll stay alive using sorcery with the collar on? You think the chorae will negate it somehow?

[MSJ]

Oh, when Orinaus is said to rip Sorweel in two, I'm assuming he ripped the Aimalos off of him, correct? Serwa, notes his face is flayed, yes?