[sciborg2]

Confessions of a Former Misogynist

"When I realised how my behaviour must have made my girlfriends feel, I felt sick. There wasn’t a feminist conspiracy to deprive nice men from getting sex and girlfriends. The girls I’d been out with hadn’t dumped me because I was ‘too nice’ or because I was depressed, but because I was an emotionally abusive arsehole. That’s not an easy thing to admit, but it’s a lot easier to fix once you’ve done it."

[Callan S.]

Saajan, I'm left guessing why you posted, because you've done a link, quote and run?

At best the guy has Maya's observation of unconcious acceptance of his sort of behaviour. I'm not sure I call unconcious acceptance a 'privilege' being handed out. It could be a new definition of privilege, but I don't think it's the old definition.

Though skimming the link, I'll go off topic briefly on the 'it's my body' part - it reminds me of an old example I've given before of how male sea horses carry the baby. If humans were the same, it'd be the mans body - so it'd just be the man's choice in that case?

[sciborg2]

Seemed relevant to the topic. I think most people suffer from confirmation bias, and it's a good idea to explore why men are so resistant to feminism.

I'll also say I find the EkyannusIII references to accepting biology to be dubious, as there's no reference to any peer reviewed journals to clarify/support his points.

I am glad to see Meyna here, as I believe that makes at least one actual female who is interested in discussing such issues around these parts. I know Three Pound Brain largely reads as biased figures all agreeing with each other, so it would be good to have some female perspectives here.

eta: If you're interested I'd link this thread to Westeros as I'm curious to see the reactions.

[EkyannusIII]

I apologize for bailing on a thread I contributed two lengthy messages too, I have been otherwise occupied lately.  For now, let me post this to sciborg2:

I'll also say I find the EkyannusIII references to accepting biology to be dubious, as there's no reference to any peer reviewed journals to clarify/support his points.

I find only two references to biology in my posts:

1.)

It is sexist but it isn't a problem for me, MRAs are dangerous in themselves, feminists are only dangerous (as opposed to amusing) because they have men to enforce their doctrines for them.  This is true for any feminist issue including abortion (kept legal because some men find it convenient for themselves and because some like to play White Knight over the matter; if only women supported abortion it wold never have been legalized). 

and

2.)

Yeah, as a secondary concern women might want to set up defences. But as a secondary concern, that's not making your life revolve around such things.

But when someone treats fear of sexual assault as the normalised first and foremost way a woman should think about her life - is that liberty?

No, but it is the inevitable result of expecting them to defend themselves when they are "liberated" from the patriarchal authority of a father, brother, or husband. Another way feminism victimizes women.  At least the older generation understood that biology had to be compensated for in order to achieve equality, the current fools are convinced that biology is a hate crime and seek to suppress it, which only leaves women vulnerable before the inegalitarian reality of human nature, against which there are no longer any social and moral strictures other than threat of violent coercion by law.  Shooting the messenger, turned up to 12.

Unless I have forgotten something else in my posts (entirely possible, it has been a few days and my mind has been elsewhere) you appear to be asking me for peer-reviewed articles demonstrating that men are bigger and stronger than women.  Am I misreading you?

[sciborg2]

"demonstrating that men are bigger and stronger than women."

You mean on average right? And what does this have to do with feminism?

[Callan S.]

Seemed relevant to the topic. I think most people suffer from confirmation bias, and it's a good idea to explore why men are so resistant to feminism.

Depends if one side forgets it's also vulnerable to confirmation bias as it focuses entirely on the other side?

I'll also say I find the EkyannusIII references to accepting biology to be dubious, as there's no reference to any peer reviewed journals to clarify/support his points.

I think he's trying to say men are more physically powerful, so women can't fight them off and feminism is hiding that gender strength disparity/that women can't fight them off and so leaving them vulnerable. I don't really agree a bit of upper body strength is a defining issue myself (as I partly noted with my comments about a bread knife between male ribs). Nor do I agree that some "men defending women or women can only move around in groups of two or three" culture is a solution. Though, rather than upper body strength, it might do well to look into male psychosis. You can't treat upper body strength (if it somehow mattered), but you can (self) treat psychosis.

I am glad to see Meyna here, as I believe that makes at least one actual female who is interested in discussing such issues around these parts. I know Three Pound Brain largely reads as biased figures all agreeing with each other, so it would be good to have some female perspectives here.

I'm stuck in two camps, wanting a less skewed demographic, but at the same time people are just people here.

eta: If you're interested I'd link this thread to Westeros as I'm curious to see the reactions.

Depends on whether you can describe the argument I'm putting forward (you don't have to agree with it, just be able to describe the idea of it correctly). Otherwise I'd be giving permission to link a missinterpretation of my argument, which would be all sorts of train wreck.

[sciborg2]

"Depends on whether you can describe the argument I'm putting forward (you don't have to agree with it, just be able to describe the idea of it correctly). Otherwise I'd be giving permission to link a missinterpretation of my argument, which would be all sorts of train wreck."

Wait, don't you have a Westeros account? You can just ask your question in the feminism thread.

[Callan S.]

I've spoken about a claim I've overheard that "Men not having to think about sexual objectification or sexual assault when they go out* == men have been given a privilege"

They don't seem to be claiming that in that thread you linked, Saajan?

If they don't seem to be claiming that - I'm inclined to read charitably that they aren't. Am I supposed to try and draw out that claim from them?

Though I'll grant I titled this thread 'male privilege', which is probably too broad a title. Male privilege as in men being promoted in the work force ahead of women, yes, thats one type of male privilege that seems to exist and in disgusting amounts. Though perhaps it still shouldn't be called privilege. I like the word privilege - I don't think it's negative to have privileges, per se (if were playing dodge ball I have the privilege of trying to hit you with the ball, for example)

* Which isn't all that true anyway.

[sciborg2]

My point is if you want a discussion of this, you're better off finding a place that has a larger percentage of women posting.

It's up to you.

[Callan S.]

I think were talking past each other. Not much point talking to a high female demographic forum about 'men not having to think about being sexually assaulted==male privilege' to debunk it, if none of them claim it to begin with.

[Callan S.]

And now it's locked! Did get to be a pretty long thread though.

[sciborg2]

It's only locked because it hit twenty-something pages.

If you want an answer to your query, you can make a new feminism thread and repost your OP from here over there.

Topic seems dead here anyway.

[Callan S.]

They just don't love the seahorses, is all, is all.

[sciborg2]

Huh?

Do you want a discussion about your question or not? [I saw you posted, but not your question about male privilege? If you want I'll do it for you.]

[Callan S.]

How about you leave me to do my own thing, Saajan? I took your post before to be a suggestion - but now you're acting like you have to be given an answer?