The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The White-Luck Warrior => Topic started by: Cüréthañ on October 27, 2013, 10:35:38 pm

Title: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Cüréthañ on October 27, 2013, 10:35:38 pm
This scene seems like 100% lies.
Why is Proyas there?  Seems like the whole show is for his benefit.  Perhaps K doesn't plan on being with the Ordeal when they get to Dagliash.

Why the heck didn't Sorweel and co go back with the Emissary?  Maybe they weren't even really from Ishterberinth. 
But I don't think the nonmen would be counting on their hostages being able to teleport there with the metagnosis.  It doesn't really make them good hostages either if they can just teleport away :p

The Emissary agrees to ally on the basis of the Niom and Daglaish at the outset, then again at the end of the conversation.  What is the point of the shit in between?

He asks K about the outside and they briefly discuss damnation.
Specifically the line from the Tusk that we know was added by the Inchies.  Presumably both K and the Emisarry KNOW this is a lie.

There are other two nonmen, but they do nothing... Um... 

Touching K; perhaps the Emissary slipped him a love letter?  Or a map?  Or some Tekne 'bug'?

Proyas thinks about the overtures that K made, all the people he sent to Ishterberinth.  I call BS.  If K can spend two days teleporting halfway across the continent just to help calm down the cults when he knows the new empire will fall anyway, I'm sure he could spend a week checking out Ishterberinth (and doing some diplomacy if possible) before the ordeal even set out.

Anyway, just wanted to start you all thinking.  I've read that scene a few times now, and it makes less sense every time.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Callan S. on October 27, 2013, 11:42:08 pm
So. Many. Variables (the teleportation simply increased the various variables geometrically)

So few restrictions on actions present to determine intent by.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Cüréthañ on October 28, 2013, 03:05:51 am
Guess we'll find out when the Ordeal reaches Dagliash.
Still, the fact that Proyas is the only attendee seems important.
I understand that his PoV is the only way into an important plot event, but not even Kayutus is there.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: locke on October 28, 2013, 08:01:00 am
Does Kellhus know how to read a cunoroi face?

because he learns a ton on how to read their faces when he catches them in a straight lie.  That's the Nil Giccas bit, Kellhus knows he's not there and then they lie to him. 

so that tells me the whole meeting is advantage Kellhus, because he established a baseline, 'lie' cunoroi face and extrapolated from there.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Cüréthañ on October 28, 2013, 10:00:00 am
Yeh, something I wondered about too, Locke.  I think K would definitely know all it is possible to know about the nonmen.  His warning to Proyas suggests he is quite familiar with them already, inasmuch as we can trust that.

Another thing, are the Cunoroi are even important to the Ordeal?
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Wilshire on October 28, 2013, 07:36:56 pm
Yeh, something I wondered about too, Locke.  I think K would definitely know all it is possible to know about the nonmen.  His warning to Proyas suggests he is quite familiar with them already, inasmuch as we can trust that.

Another thing, are the Cunoroi are even important to the Ordeal?

I'd say that the Quya are a major factor. I'd guess they could give Kellhus and his meta-gnosis a good battle. A chorus of Quya would be terrifying and could probably decimate an entire gnostic school. Meaning so pure...

As for the rest... Well, we saw what a few bashrag did. The Ordeal can kill an infinite number of sranc, buy anything else seems to tip the favor away from them. A small platoon of Ishroi could open up a hole in the Ordeal's defenses, which could have devastating affects.

So I would think that, while they may be small in number, the Cunoroi could play a vital role in the success of failure of the Great Ordeal.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Borric on October 28, 2013, 07:58:22 pm
I would guess they will be the main opposition, along with Wracu.
Who else can the Consult field?  (Able to go head to head with the schools)
The Mangaecca are now a bunch of bobbing heads?
The Inchroi consist of two beings.
I’d venture that the Quya who sided with the Consult will be formidable indeed.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Wilshire on October 28, 2013, 08:08:15 pm
They may also be the largest unknown quantity in Kellhus' equations, which is significant.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on October 28, 2013, 09:21:40 pm
I appreciate the dissection of this scene but a number of contentions. Antagonistic, insofar as I can also foster discussion.

This scene seems like 100% lies.
Why is Proyas there?  Seems like the whole show is for his benefit.  Perhaps K doesn't plan on being with the Ordeal when they get to Dagliash.

Proyas isn't the only person there. There are a number of the Pillarian Guard there as well.

The Emissary agrees to ally on the basis of the Niom and Daglaish at the outset, then again at the end of the conversation.  What is the point of the shit in between?

This is the first notable interaction between the Powers-That-Be in millenia. Why shouldn't they shoot the shit? Kellhus is one of the few entities in Earwa that can offer the Nonmen something new to talk about. He's not simply a poor repetition of all the humans that have come before.

Also, considering carefully the Niom, Proyas thinks on never having heard of it. Kellhus, however, knows exactly what it is.

Presumably, if the Nonmen are treating in good faith, then they think that if the Ordeal prevails at Dagliash, then it may have victory at Golgotterath. I took it to mean, essentially, that the Nonmen will do nothing until Kellhus takes Dagliash.

He asks K about the outside and they briefly discuss damnation.
Specifically the line from the Tusk that we know was added by the Inchies.  Presumably both K and the Emisarry KNOW this is a lie.

I wondered about this, as well. It makes me think that Kellhus actually doesn't care how the Nonmen respond at this point. As I think you yourself pointed out, Nonmen are False is not the same as are Damned. Both Kellhus and Nin'sarricas corroborate that that's why they are Damned but, obviously, we don't know what the actual case is...

Also, Bakker primed us purposely for some reason with that interview before WLW - we wouldn't have known unequivocally otherwise that the Inchoroi added that and it would have alleviated us of a layer of ambiguity here.

I would actually assume that neither Kellhus or Nin'sarricas know that the 'are False' is itself a faked addition to the Tusk, though both might suspect.

Touching K; perhaps the Emissary slipped him a love letter?  Or a map?  Or some Tekne 'bug'?

I read this as the Nonman having some kind of ability to sense the soul based on the context of the conversation. It has been theorized that the Nonmen had a real issue with Ciphrangic possessions causing social upheaval and Malowebi too references it as historically precedent.

Proyas thinks about the overtures that K made, all the people he sent to Ishterberinth.  I call BS.  If K can spend two days teleporting halfway across the continent just to help calm down the cults when he knows the new empire will fall anyway, I'm sure he could spend a week checking out Ishterberinth (and doing some diplomacy if possible) before the ordeal even set out.

Anyway, just wanted to start you all thinking.  I've read that scene a few times now, and it makes less sense every time.

The exercise of sorcery seems to offend/frighten the Nonmen? Kellhus probably knows he couldn't defeat a motivated corp of Quya on his own?

Guess we'll find out when the Ordeal reaches Dagliash.
Still, the fact that Proyas is the only attendee seems important.
I understand that his PoV is the only way into an important plot event, but not even Kayutus is there.

Saubon not being there would seem more important. Kellhus doesn't need anyone there really. Proyas is Exalt-General and he's with the same Army. I mean, I understand reading into it for sake of it - but I'm not sure how seriously to implicate consequences?

Does Kellhus know how to read a cunoroi face?

because he learns a ton on how to read their faces when he catches them in a straight lie.  That's the Nil Giccas bit, Kellhus knows he's not there and then they lie to him.

He learned to read the skin-spies fairly reliably, neh? I'm sure he'd have no issues with the Nonmen.

so that tells me the whole meeting is advantage Kellhus, because he established a baseline, 'lie' cunoroi face and extrapolated from there.

I'm not sure Kellhus could gain anything at this point in dealing with the Nonmen. His most obvious play, for whatever advantage, to me, is entirely in sending Serwa. Then he'll leverage what he wants from them.

Yeh, something I wondered about too, Locke.  I think K would definitely know all it is possible to know about the nonmen.  His warning to Proyas suggests he is quite familiar with them already, inasmuch as we can trust that.

Another thing, are the Cunoroi are even important to the Ordeal?

I'd say that the Quya are a major factor. I'd guess they could give Kellhus and his meta-gnosis a good battle. A chorus of Quya would be terrifying and could probably decimate an entire gnostic school. Meaning so pure...

I realize Nil'giccas is probably not an average Nonman but I'll take Cil-Aujas as the cipher. If the average Quya is even half as capable as Cleric...

I would guess they will be the main opposition, along with Wracu.
Who else can the Consult field?  (Able to go head to head with the schools)

I think this may be a tangent from topic but some thoughts:

There is an old Bakker quote that suggests that a few hundred Nonmen joined the Consult and the rest sequestered in Ishterebinth. A couple thousand all told, apparently.

Without the will of the No-God, the Quya and Ursranc or skin-spies had to literally chain thousands of Sranc together and beat them in the direction of the Ordeal. So I don't think that Sranc and Bashrag can hold the walls at Ishterebinth.

This leaves us with new creations of the Tekne and Wracu as was suggested. Skin-spies would certainly count against any number of regular human warriors. Then, there is Simas and some eerie indications that Soma is another anomaly with the ability to see the onta. If the Consult could field skin-spies with the abilities of the Few... But this is a conversation of autonomy: the skin-spies will defend a Fortress whereas Sranc or Bashrag will not without the will of the No-God.

I think Wutteat will help the Consult contest Dagliash but unless there is a coordinated effort to find the other Wracu, then sans the Black Heavens calling, they will do little to invoke the wrath of the world.

The Consult might adopt a strategy of defensive deception, feigning resistance with a small number of Quya and then trying to siege in Dagliash a la Caraskand but... still there is the problem of getting the Sranc and Bashrag to attack in force.

Questions, questions.

Good thread, Curethan.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 03, 2013, 03:07:18 pm
So to add to fodder that perception is significantly different to Nonmen:

Quote from: WLW, p278
"Is it true," he inexplicably asks, "that being touched by another and touching oneself are quite distinct sensations for Men?"
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Francis Buck on November 04, 2013, 02:13:33 am
What is the Niom?
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Wic on November 04, 2013, 02:46:48 am
Serwa explains to Sorweel:

"The Nonmen have invoked Niom," she said. "An ancient ritual."

...

"The ancient Nonmen Kings found Men too mercurial," she explains, "too proud and headstrong to be trusted.  So in all their dealings they demanded hostages as a guarantee: a son, a daughter, and a captive enemy.  The two former as a surety against treachery.  The latter as a surety against deception."
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Francis Buck on November 04, 2013, 03:09:36 am
Ah, now I remember. Thank you.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 05, 2013, 02:33:00 pm
Thanks, Wic. Might I ask you if you can provide a page number or chapter notation? Some sort of way fans can reference quotes for themselves :).

In TUC Ch. 3 summary, Wilshire noted some description that leads to suggest that Serwa is very concerned that Sorweel appears far too "Team Anasurimbor" as they reach Ishterebinth. Clearly, she's spent more time with Sorweel directly than has Kayatus or Kellhus, who don't talk to him long enough to recognize the sharp dissonance in their ability to predict his next words. If we guessed right, Serwa even tortures Sorweel with Gnostic Torments because she doesn't understand why Sorweel's face beams love and rainbows but yet still makes his incendiary commentary (I do believe the Gods force words in a few instances).

Even in WLW, they make no effort to discuss how Sorweel, one of the apparent Believer-Kings, is going to behave like a "captive enemy." I mean, we know internally Sorweel is dead-set against the Anasurimbor but that's not what the Nonmen will read on his face...

Rough deal, anyhow - I mean, hey, Niom for the "greatest of Quya," sure. But Niom then the Ordeal still has to take Dagliash for the other half of their deal.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Borric on November 05, 2013, 05:51:53 pm
Maybe the gods will show the Nomen his real face.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 06, 2013, 06:15:44 pm
Good call. There's simply too much we don't know to guess about the historical interaction between the Hundred and the Nonmen.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: locke on November 06, 2013, 09:53:24 pm
or the nonmen are well familiar with how the gods mark humans. 

I presume their multi-time sight would show them that Sorweel has been fucked with.

In any event, Kellhus didn't fulfill Niom because Moenghus is not his son (unless metaphysical adoption etc).  Perhaps Moe is the enemy and Sorweel is the son?
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Wilshire on November 07, 2013, 12:08:13 am
or the nonmen are well familiar with how the gods mark humans. 

I presume their multi-time sight would show them that Sorweel has been fucked with.

In any event, Kellhus didn't fulfill Niom because Moenghus is not his son (unless metaphysical adoption etc).  Perhaps Moe is the enemy and Sorweel is the son?
Why is there not a mind=blown emoticon?
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 07, 2013, 02:51:13 am
Apologies, I've neglected to upload a new emoticon set. I'll remind myself tomorrow.

In any event, Kellhus didn't fulfill Niom because Moenghus is not his son (unless metaphysical adoption etc).  Perhaps Moe is the enemy and Sorweel is the son?

Hm... Good call!

Lol - I can't wait until Sorweel and Mimara meet.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Ciogli on November 11, 2013, 11:21:52 pm
It might be difficult for Kellhuss to read the Nonmen, remember all the trouble he had with Cnauir because of his madness, making his ordinary interactions difficult because he did things for no logical reason. And though the Intact have a logical goal but madness would stalk their every interaction with Kellhuss, making reading them difficult. He may met and interrogated Cleric before giving him to the Skin Eaters, so he may have knowledge of Nonmen's basic facial cues.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 12, 2013, 01:26:25 am
Kellhus was able to leverage Cnaiur's madness sometimes, neh?

Kellhus is the ultimate method actor. I'd hazard he can figure out how the Nonmen think - it seems obvious he helps Kosoter manage Cleric. He figures out the skin-spies easy enough.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Wilshire on November 12, 2013, 03:59:14 am
Ciogli, I don't know if I agree with that. I seem to recall Kellhus' main issue was that his father tried to manipulate Cnaiur in the same way he tried too. Cnaiur had years to run through the encounter over and over in his mind, and eventually saw through a lot of the deception. In those years he was free of the Dunyain manipulation which allowed him to overcome the lies.
Then, even though he knew exactly who and what Kellhus was, he still couldn't fully evade the son's manipulation.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Cüréthañ on November 12, 2013, 09:37:21 am
Yeah, I hardly think Kellhus has made such a straightforward and serious mistake as screwing the Niom.
Socially, functionally, Moenghus is his son.  Perhaps he wants the Niom to fail though, ldk.

The real question about the Niom is why they didn't return via Quya Chariot?  Why do they have to sneak up on Ishteribinth? They have made ridiculous speed there by teleporting, so how will they explain that, especially if they beat the chariot there.  Plus the ordeal won't have taken Dagliash by the time they get there (and word of that would have to travel too, so why send the kids now if that was the stall on getting a lift?) 

Why did Kell select Sorweel as the 'enemy' - if Kell was fooled by Yatwer's mask then he shouldn't have picked someone so 'totally' converted.  It is interesting that Kell seems to be schooling import pieces on his Benjuka plate against his Dunyain nature.  Esme is important because she knows his true dunyain nature, he entrusts the Empire with her (I suspect because he knows a dunyain (Maitha) must fail against the WLW).  Akka too.  Now Proyas is being shown the truth as well.

It seems that because we no longer have a window into Kellhus' machinations we have kind of forgotten his level of Xanatos Gambit mastery.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 12, 2013, 03:14:41 pm
Yeah, I hardly think Kellhus has made such a straightforward and serious mistake as screwing the Niom.
Socially, functionally, Moenghus is his son.  Perhaps he wants the Niom to fail though, ldk.

The real question about the Niom is why they didn't return via Quya Chariot?  Why do they have to sneak up on Ishteribinth? They have made ridiculous speed there by teleporting, so how will they explain that, especially if they beat the chariot there.  Plus the ordeal won't have taken Dagliash by the time they get there (and word of that would have to travel too, so why send the kids now if that was the stall on getting a lift?) 

Why did Kell select Sorweel as the 'enemy' - if Kell was fooled by Yatwer's mask then he shouldn't have picked someone so 'totally' converted.  It is interesting that Kell seems to be schooling import pieces on his Benjuka plate against his Dunyain nature.  Esme is important because she knows his true dunyain nature, he entrusts the Empire with her (I suspect because he knows a dunyain (Maitha) must fail against the WLW).  Akka too.  Now Proyas is being shown the truth as well.

It seems that because we no longer have a window into Kellhus' machinations we have kind of forgotten his level of Xanatos Gambit mastery.

I don't think Dagliash or Niom need to be fulfilled concurrently. Also, Serwa can only do two or three horizons a day - Metagnostic Cants try her far more than her father (or so she would have Sorweel believe) so I'm sure the Chariot will have no issue beating them. The Nonmen seem very haughty, I can easily see them being like "Oh yeah, and if you want to deal with us, walk the fuck over."

It seems to me that Serwa is only integral to Ishterebinth as a Womb. That is the reason for expediency. Otherwise, she would definitely be useful fighting with the Ordeal against Dagliash.

It could be that Sorweel is being removed from the Plate as an aberration. Or it could be that the Gods and the Nonmen have a date with destiny.

I like the bit about letting knowledge of the Dunyain slip, Curethan. Truth enslaves more than lies.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Cüréthañ on November 13, 2013, 07:00:24 am
I feel like its more important for Kellhus to get Sorweel or Moe to Ishterberinth.

There are a lot more variables to be considered in why those two were sent.

I find the idea that Sorweel's false face will be detected as soon a quya touches him ala Kellhus and the Emissary compelling; perhaps revealing that Kellhus' 'enemy' is no less than an agent of the hundred will be important in swaying the Intact from the consult and planned treachery back to the ordeal?
 
Serwe is simply a daughter, and handily able to use the cants of translocation.  Even if she can bear nonman children (possible but no certainty) it would not save their race.  Frankly, if making half breeds was a tenable or desirable option they would have made a lot more efforts in that direction already.

Otherwise I can't really see 'pride' as a reason to demand three people walk across hundreds of miles of sranc infested wasteland.  That's just stupid. And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range.  I'm quite sure the metagnosis leaves a mark, probably noticably different from the norm.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Wilshire on November 13, 2013, 06:01:04 pm
I don't remember the conversation about her hiding her sorcerery, so I could be way off base, but maybe she just doesn't want to materialize out of thin air at the front gates of Ishterebinth. That would create a "shoot first ask questions later" scenario that would not be favorable for Kellhus.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Borric on November 13, 2013, 07:05:54 pm
And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range. 

I assumed that was for more practical reasons.
Automated Wards in place etc.

Serwe is simply a daughter, and handily able to use the cants of translocation. 

Whow, that’s one bold statement.
 I like it though.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Cüréthañ on November 14, 2013, 01:20:36 am
Heh, didn't mean it in any sexist manner.  Just that there are no other options -Theliopa is a bit out of reach.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Borque on November 14, 2013, 10:16:09 am
And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range.  I'm quite sure the metagnosis leaves a mark, probably noticably different from the norm.
Those transposition cants would be unknown to the Nonmen, and she (and Kellhus) might not want to show off her full capabilities just yet.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Cüréthañ on November 14, 2013, 10:35:59 am
Just noting that the thing about her being unwilling to teleport comes from the preview reading.

I feel like the nonmen have to suspect something anyway, either from the speed of their progress or from the quality of her mark or both.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Borque on November 14, 2013, 11:10:03 am
I feel like the nonmen have to suspect something anyway, either from the speed of their progress or from the quality of her mark or both.
Yes, they might suspect something but wouldn't know exactly what. 

Maybe they would assume that they came by flying chariot or somesuch. Even if this - from what we've read so far - seems to be beyond human sorcerers, it would still be credible.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 14, 2013, 03:05:22 pm
I feel like its more important for Kellhus to get Sorweel or Moe to Ishterberinth.

There are a lot more variables to be considered in why those two were sent.

The Nonmen are going to be able to figure out Moenghus isn't Kellhus son, I'd think - unless they suffer the human-like bias that all Others look the same and can't tell humans apart but I don't think so. And Kellhus can't very well send Kayutas - kid is probably the greatest martial leader in Earwa's history besides Kellhus. I think, Kellhus actually doubts the Ordeal can succeed. The demonstration of conviction is coming.

I find the idea that Sorweel's false face will be detected as soon a quya touches him ala Kellhus and the Emissary compelling; perhaps revealing that Kellhus' 'enemy' is no less than an agent of the hundred will be important in swaying the Intact from the consult and planned treachery back to the ordeal?

I like - especially the idea that that convinces them. I figure Serwa is going to get the Nonmen arguing and Mimara but especially, Achamian's armor, is going to get them fighting.

Serwe is simply a daughter, and handily able to use the cants of translocation. Even if she can bear nonman children (possible but no certainty) it would not save their race.  Frankly, if making half breeds was a tenable or desirable option they would have made a lot more efforts in that direction already.

Hmm... I think you underestimate the difficulty, Curethan. A human male has impregnated a Nonwoman once (Cuno-Incoroi wars) and a Siqu "raped" (allegedly) an Anasurimbor once. Two viable offspring. I think it's suggested in the text that the Nonmen are trying with the Emwama they have left after their civilization and way of life is hand-slapped by the Four Tribes. Otherwise, after the breaking of the gates they don't get much opportunity. There may or may not be the third in Cil-Aujas but we might never know.

As for the daughter part, I would want to have my genetic line pass on, I think... then, as a Nonman, you aren't a genealogical dead end. And it's not difficult to imagine that the resulting hybrid species will actually be more Nonman than human due to the Dunyain's inbreeding of the Anasurimbor bloodline already diluted with Nonman blood.

Quote
Otherwise I can't really see 'pride' as a reason to demand three people walk across hundreds of miles of sranc infested wasteland.  That's just stupid. And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range.  I'm quite sure the metagnosis leaves a mark, probably noticably different from the norm.

I don't remember the conversation about her hiding her sorcerery, so I could be way off base, but maybe she just doesn't want to materialize out of thin air at the front gates of Ishterebinth. That would create a "shoot first ask questions later" scenario that would not be favorable for Kellhus.

And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range. 

I assumed that was for more practical reasons.
Automated Wards in place etc.

Wilshire, that's scary dude, cause that's like based off your attendance at the Ch. 3 reading ;).

I too figured powerful Wards. The Quya will be able to sense Serwa's Mark regardless - plus who know what offends a Nonman.

Quote
And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range.  I'm quite sure the metagnosis leaves a mark, probably noticably different from the norm.
Those transposition cants would be unknown to the Nonmen, and she (and Kellhus) might not want to show off her full capabilities just yet.

Just noting that the thing about her being unwilling to teleport comes from the preview reading.

I feel like the nonmen have to suspect something anyway, either from the speed of their progress or from the quality of her mark or both.

+1.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Wilshire on November 15, 2013, 01:39:02 am
 :-[

I can't be expected to remember everything I know.
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on November 15, 2013, 02:39:34 pm
I laugh in the face of our mutual Erraticism ;).
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: mrganondorf on February 27, 2014, 09:56:50 pm
Whatever deal Kellhus hopes to make with the nonmen post-Dagliash, I bet it includes a lot of chariots.  Air support would be so useful for the ordeal, esp with dragons about.  Has Kellhus had enough time to manufacture his own chariot or like device?
Title: Re: Khellus and the Emissary.
Post by: Madness on March 06, 2014, 04:29:08 am
Well, Kellhus has the Seeing-Flame and the Ekkinu, a sorcerous tapestry, which frames his throne-on-the-go. I've always wanted to make a thread to discuss sorcerous objects and so now I have (http://second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1185.msg13879#msg13879).