Miscellaneous Chatter > Philosophy & Science
Is there really a Determinism/Indeterminism Dichotomy?
sciborg2:
Indeterminism, as described in philosophy/science texts, suggests things happen for no reason at all or at best prior factors cause an inexplicable event that is probabilistic without further explanation being possible. (This assumes that indeterminism is part of nature & not just an expression of causal ignorance of course.)
But while it's obvious indeterminism is nonsensical, determinism actually contains the same arbitrariness hidden under brute assertions. The logical argument for determinism is that things happen for a reason, and that an event A can be accounted for by some set of necessary/sufficient prior events (a.1, a.2,...., a.N).
Yet the way to find out what set of prior events accounts for A requires back tracking from A and continually reducing the elements of the set until the removal of some event a.X in the set of all priors (a.1, a.2,...., a.Infinity) results in A not occurring.
But what ensures A should always be the result? Why doesn't some event B sometimes end up as the result instead of A? The usual explanation seems to be that there are brute facts that are called "natural laws". Yet why don't the "laws" change? What keeps them in place? "Meta-laws"?
TLEILAXU:
--- Quote from: sciborg2 on October 27, 2018, 07:26:54 pm ---But while it's obvious indeterminism is nonsensical
--- End quote ---
Why is this obvious?
sciborg2:
--- Quote from: TLEILAXU on October 27, 2018, 07:36:21 pm ---Why is this obvious?
--- End quote ---
How can something happen for no reason at all? Maybe nonsensical if the wrong word, but while I can understand inner/final causation I cannot fathom how something can happen without any cause.
Perhaps it's the distinction Aristotle makes between efficient causation (billiard ball type causality) and final causation (the unit's internal movement toward a goal)?
I know William James wrote about this, how indeterminism is just inner-cause but need to dig around to find the quote again...
TLEILAXU:
--- Quote from: sciborg2 on October 27, 2018, 07:41:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: TLEILAXU on October 27, 2018, 07:36:21 pm ---Why is this obvious?
--- End quote ---
How can something happen for no reason at all? Maybe nonsensical if the wrong word, but while I can understand inner/final causation I cannot fathom how something can happen without any cause.
Perhaps it's the distinction Aristotle makes between efficient causation (billiard ball type causality) and final causation (the unit's internal movement toward a goal)?
I know William James wrote about this, how indeterminism is just inner-cause but need to dig around to find the quote again...
--- End quote ---
Not sure I understand the final causation thing, but I don't see why things necessarily need a reason. In fact, isn't reason in some sense just kind of a man made heuristic? God might not need it...
sciborg2:
--- Quote from: TLEILAXU on October 27, 2018, 08:08:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: sciborg2 on October 27, 2018, 07:41:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: TLEILAXU on October 27, 2018, 07:36:21 pm ---Why is this obvious?
--- End quote ---
How can something happen for no reason at all? Maybe nonsensical if the wrong word, but while I can understand inner/final causation I cannot fathom how something can happen without any cause.
Perhaps it's the distinction Aristotle makes between efficient causation (billiard ball type causality) and final causation (the unit's internal movement toward a goal)?
I know William James wrote about this, how indeterminism is just inner-cause but need to dig around to find the quote again...
--- End quote ---
Not sure I understand the final causation thing, but I don't see why things necessarily need a reason. In fact, isn't reason in some sense just kind of a man made heuristic? God might not need it...
--- End quote ---
Well God as Prime Mover would be the reason in a theistic metaphysics.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version