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Messages - Cüréthañ

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736
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Weapons of Animata
« on: September 01, 2013, 12:45:20 pm »
Hmm, doubt Shae will have an army of puppets.  Recall that Aurang's projections through the synthese require a circle of sorcerers to maintain the cants.

On the original thread topic, the weapon races are driven by the No-god's will when he arises, what more dread instrument do you need?

The idea of using dunyain souls for some kind of sorcery is interesting.  Based on Akka's descriptions of how souls are trapped and utilized in sorcery, and the hints we are given within his dreams of the consult's methods in stripping souls of identity and will before processing them in the golden room I would expect Dunyain souls to be too strong to be used in such a manner.  Doesn't mean Khellus couldn't do it, but I struggle to suggest a method or indeed a purpose via which he could use them.  I think manufacturing his own artificial god and a weapon race for it to wield is possible - the ordeal itself given gene therapy in their sranc steaks perhaps? - but I cannot see K. enslaving himself in the manner that the consult have. 

I see no reason why the consult should not have continued to recruit and corrupt members in the same way they did Ieva and the Scylvendi.  I do not doubt that they had corrupted sorcerers within the Anagogic schools - they would have only needed the special ensouled skin spy to get into the Mandate because of Seswatha's homonculous.

737
The Great Ordeal / Re: Excerpt - The Unholy Consult, Chapter One
« on: June 14, 2013, 12:28:19 pm »
They only have parts of memories and the Erratic only remember tragedy anyway. He could have just thought he looked like an Anasurimbor but that doesn't make it so.

Erratics remember many mundane details.  Cleric provides clear evidence of this as he leads the scalpers through Cil Aujis.  They seek trauma to regain knowlege of themselves - who they were.  Those are the memories that can bind their fractured personalities.
But yeh, Nonmen can definately be mistaken.  But due to the identity of the nonman in question, there would be good reason for the face on his cloak to have been an Anasurimbor.

On topic, there is no reason to think Akka's dreams are true anyway.   There are two options imo.

If they are meant to precipitate something (which seems very likely) then something must be causing them. 
Moenghus sent dreams to dunyain @ Ishual, why shouldn't Khellus sends dreams to Akka? 

The other possibility is that Akka can access Seswatha's soul-memories (which are be 'stored' outside and accessed via the Grasping ritual).
Because Seswatha is actually Nau-Catyuti's father, Akka is able to access Nau's memories because of the ancestor relationship that most Earwan metaphysics alude to.  (I.e. the familial mini-dimensions that can intercede to save a soul.)
This (and Seswatha and Celmomas' estrangment) would explain the narrative necesity of including Seswatha's affair with the empress.

Either way there is the question of the timing of the dreams with actual events.  Does it seem like they are affecting the actions of Akka and thus affecting causality?

I feel that there is a chance that Ganrelka was Cel's first son - born of a teenage daliance and not originally expected to figure in the succession.

738
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Mishmash
« on: June 08, 2013, 02:17:26 am »
I doubt you will see advancments from the Nonmen.
This is epic fantasy, after all.  One of the hallmarks of which is a lack of technological (or magical) progression.
The rest of the social systems are stagnant.  Perhaps this is enforced by the gods or the peculiarities of entrenched and persistant objective meaning.
4000 years and things have remained pretty much the same, and the Nonmen are not concerned with advancing knowledge but rather halting its erosion.

I rather doubt that a race of halfwits who can barely remember who they are and are increasingly subject to murder and betrayal as a means of remembering their past are developing new permutations of meaning.  (Not to mention they are completely infiltrated by beings dedicated to their extermination.)

Only the Dunyain are new and Khellus represents modernisation.

739
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: June 04, 2013, 04:09:27 pm »
Kellhus didn't have any other breeding opportunities. Only Esmenet managed to produce (arguably) viable children for him.

Um, how many women did blind Moenghus/Mallahet the Priest have to choose from?  ...  Kellhus had a much broader range of breeding stock, imperial concubines are mentioned.  Like an empire worth of choices.  He has people who will conduct any secret mission and happily top themselves after doing whatever task he asks of them without question. Seriously ... he managed to find the only other worldborn woman able to bear dunyain children?

Maybe Esme was the only other one who could produce viable children (albiet with less success), but it wasn't for lack of opportunities.
Khellhus may have hidden offspring for all we know, seems more likely than Maitha having other secret siblings superior to Kellhus' gaggle of crazies.

740
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: June 04, 2013, 01:47:04 am »
@ Wilshire;  I feel like this is a difference of perception in the reader.  Moenghus has the larger task and lesser resources.  Kellhus walks into a position where he simply takes control of the entire three seas because circumstances have been conditioned by Moenghus.  (Triamis provides an example of a mere worldborn man gaining an empire nearly as large as the NE, so why sould such an effort leave a dunyain prodigy ragged and leaving imprtant details untended?) 
Maitha's actions are moot (and entirely dictated by Moe anyway) as we are talking about raising and training an effective dunyain child.

@ Madness; my point is that Kellhus would not neglect his breeding opportunities or the chance to properly train half dunyain to the level of Maitha (whose ability exceeds all Kellhus' children but not Kellhus) through a lack of time.

Ultimately, Kellhus' actions are determined by the Logos.  If his children were capable of achieving the balance Maitha embodies (not exceeding Kellhus), the decision on whether to nuture that potential was determined by Kellhus' assement of the shortest path, not gut feelings or a time/efffort budget.  He is not Gandalf, muddling through on intuition, hunches and inspiration. 

741
General Earwa / Re: The Inchoroi
« on: June 03, 2013, 11:36:20 am »
Heh, similar line to my thoughts here, Locke.

Was thinking that by digging deep (kneeling in the deep caverns is holy according to Cleric) and creating a powerful topoi they displaced a piece of the outside that fell into a galaxy far away, a long time ago (remember that time flows differently in the outside).  Consequently the Inchoroi arrived to complete the task of inverting the heavens and the ground and thus seal the outside in.

Quote from: Madness
What was the point of Cleric's third name? Incariol was the name he took as an Erratic Identity and Cleric is the name men gave him?

It might just be confirmation bias, but I felt like they were discernably different characters on my reread.  He doesn't choose different names - they are different people.  NG was the last king of nonmen, Incariol is an erratic and Cleric is the Skin-eater's pet quya.

742
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: June 03, 2013, 01:35:39 am »
If Moe had time to secretly condition Maitha as a half dunyain, so did K. 

Invalid, neh?

Kellhus has spent twenty years managing the Great Chain of Empire in preparation of the (second) Great Ordeal. Moenghus spent thirty years skulking in secret, unencumbered by the necessities of rule. Kellhus has had to work to convince people to "respekt ma authorita" and, as Esmenet notes, that only works in his presence or by invoking his name. Moenghus, even if he was all-powerful among the Cishaurim, appears to have done little that wasn't culturally condoned or socially corroborated.

I don't believe that Kellhus had the same amount of free time to expending in molding his children a la Maithanet.

Well, that's kind of the point.  Moenghus was turning the wheels of TTT, beginning and abandoning plans as they led to dead ends, conditioning ground as far away as Sumna and Ishual without the benefit of authority.  As K notes, Moe's presence of command diminished instantly when people left his presence.  Also, he probably maintained multiple identities, caprtured and tortured skinspies, raised and conditioned a dunyain child in secret etc etc.  Whereas Khellus could call upon the resources of an Empire, had Proyas and Saubon leading his armies, didn't have to hide his shildren, was able to select whichever concubines he deemed most able to breed etc etc. 

If a dunyain child with abilities matching or exceeding those of Maitha was viable and would provide the shortest path, K would have made time to attend to it properly. 
The Rational Priority Principle does not allow for, 'if you have time for it do x or maybe something will work out' style options.

743
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: May 30, 2013, 09:12:43 am »
But then his son, by some twist of fate (or divine interference), didn't die at the Tree like he was supposed to.
By the time of his death Moe has discovered nothing to contradict the Prime Assertion (TDTCB). 
Khellhus is the first thing to defy his conditioning, and even this can be attributed to TTT outgrowing it's inceptor.  For TTT's purpose, K is the only option, Maitha is dwarfed by a proper dunyain.

If Moe had time to secretly condition Maitha as a half dunyain, so did K. 
Perhaps K's children are more useful, stunted as they are and actually possess the same potential as Maitha. 
Perhaps they are purposefully limited by conditioning so they cannot oppose K.

744
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: May 29, 2013, 06:41:36 am »
Doesn't fit the world building imho.

All of Khellus' children are defective.  None command the proper dunyain aura with a fraction of Maitha's abilities.  They are all defined by character traits.

Moe was restricted in his ability to breed and rear children whereas K has had access to concubines etc and possibly had to keep Esme's kids.

I don't think Moe had the ability to succeed where Khellus failed in raising a small team of properly conditioned mini-dunyain.  With Maitha he already had much beeter success than K.

745
General Misc. / Re: So, whut up with male 'privilege'?
« on: May 18, 2013, 05:05:06 am »
Did someone say Contrarian Wanker?

I don't think its appropriate to use rape targets here. 
If you look in prison society you will see that male rape victims are also selected to a criteria of percieved weakness or vulnerability.  It's a predatory act.

In public, more culturally motivated displays of violence men will generally target other men - here it is a display of prowess and agression.
Can this be defined as male privilege?

746
Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello (t)here
« on: May 18, 2013, 04:42:32 am »
Hi kellykehllus.  I thought I sensed you lurking there in the darkness.

747
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: May 17, 2013, 02:38:18 pm »
Yep, damn patricians. 
Only rich folk had the right to vote in ancient Athens, for them it was one of those 'self evident' truths...  seems silly now but...

748
Neuropath / Re: Countering the Argument with Thorsten
« on: May 17, 2013, 08:49:51 am »
Just love reading your posts Thorsten.

Would like to hear your post-WLW thoughts on Earwan metaphysics if you have the time/inclination.

749
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: May 17, 2013, 05:07:40 am »
Abandon your convictions, Locke.
Its a debate from a different world, remember.  ;)  That said, I barely remember any of it its been so long...

Finished Planesrunner.  Didn't realise it was YA until I was two chapters in when it became very aparent from the predictable characterisation and plotting.
Doubt I will bother with the sequel, but not too bad if you're into that kind of thing.

750
General Earwa / Re: Over-Thoughts on the Black Seed
« on: May 11, 2013, 03:58:21 pm »
The skin spies seem to fantasize about 'proper release' - that only comes with killing. 
The skinspy with Esmi probably got a 'proper-black-seed-release' because Aurang was there on his shoulder doing the feather rubbing thing.    :P  Gross topic really.

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