UK's new anti-ID law: Overreach by the state?

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sciborg2

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« on: June 23, 2014, 06:02:00 pm »
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...UK-public-schools/5631403128922/?spt=mps&or=2

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United Kingdom has banned the teaching of creationism as scientifically valid in all schools receiving public funding.

The funding agreement defines creationism as "any doctrine or theory which holds that natural biological processes cannot account for the history, diversity, and complexity of life on earth and therefore rejects the scientific theory of evolution,"

Given Nagel's argument that the search for ID is a perfectly valid scientific endeavor, I find this to be nothing more than establishment of a state religion. That religion just happens to be atheistic naturalism, which admittedly has more evidence than any other, but nonetheless this seems like an exercise in tyranny to me.

jamesA01

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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 07:45:36 pm »
I completely disagree. The search for evidence of ID is invalid because the concept it is trying to find evidence for - a supernatural creator, is an impossibility and an absurdity. Evidence can never be found, not simply because there is none, but because the concept itself is so nebulous as to be largely meaningless. It does not refer to anything other than a fictional human concept.

The richer parts of England are exceptionally progressive when it comes to science. Even large parts of the church are enthusiastic modernists about issues like evolution and global warming. You still have the predominantly poorer places that are in thrall to Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism, because these things provide community, reassurance and some sort of dignity to people who suffer the worst excesses of capitalism and social degradation. But even these people don't feel the need to harangue scientists with their histrionics and make fools of themselves like Bill O'Reilly and his tide goes in tide goes out theory. You should also know that religion has not been banned, and alternate 'theories' are freely discussed with tax payer funds in R.E. classes. You can get all the creationism you want here, there's christian cafes and bookstores in every town.

Allowing people to teach a factually incorrect theory, or rather, horseshit fairytale, as somehow valid because of the magic of "belief" is not tyrannical. We are supposed to respect beliefs, yet the belief in creationism has zero justification or evidence, just people who "want it to be true". They cannot provide evidence for it, because there is none. We are supposed to respect their "viewpoint" even though it is incoherent, incorrect and a dangerous delusion that holds back progress. These people may want to convince us they "believe", whatever that means, but their faith seems to consist primarily of trying to convince others they take it seriously.

I know i'm being a prejudiced dick to creationists, but in my experience they are mostly not the greatest of people.

I'm also sceptical about your claim that atheistic naturalism is a religion. A lot of people might desperately want it to be, but it's not because it's simply a collection of empirically verified and potentially falsifiable facts. Of course, you can definitely point to this as justification for behaving in a quasi religious manner, which Dawkins etc. are at times guilty of. This still does not make the facts of evolution etc. into articles of faith. People can play god of the gaps, and of course noone can disprove them because they cannot define "god" as anything remotely meaningful or plausible.

David Cameron recently said that Britain was a "Christian nation" to pander to the evangelical vote. Said christo-fascist morons felt emboldened by this and one contacted a talk show in Belfast to complain that the headscarf wearing Muslim she had harassed on the street had been offended after being pointed at and insulted. She said that because we are a "Christian country" noone should have the right to wear a Burka or presumably walk down the street without being insulted.

Northern Ireland is a backwards shit hole full of pre-enlightenment christo-fascist bumpkins, politicians who believe blood can be cursed and that the earth is 6000 years old. The rest of the UK has pockets of this type of dipshittery but it is thankfully not dominant like it is here. These people are partly responsible for keeping the country mired in violence, sabotaging the economy and making us into a laughing stock. They've driven out foreign investment with their homophobia and stupidity, they've sheltered paedophile priests and terrorists, kept abortion illegal until recently, and consist of nothing more than disparate cults and tax exempt businesses.

I have been subjected to "education" by these pieces of shit which consisted of weekly humiliation sessions in which we were screamed at by a deranged yammering cunt that these supernatural fairytales were literal events and we were going to hell if we didn't believe. I managed to avoid being beaten up when my atheism became known throughout the school but only just. I know of teachers that have been hounded out of employment by the loving followers of Christ for daring to speak openly about things like "Agnosticism".

Christians doing good work and running our food banks have my respect. As does anyone who does not try and promote superstition and myth in opposition to established scientific fact. I have a harder time putting aside my prejudices and showing deference to people who want to protect Creationism. Hopefully anyone whose been offended by this post can at least see where I'm coming from.

The UK Gov is pro science to a fantastic extent, and we've largely avoided the kind of culture wars common to the USA. Religion here is a more private and reserved affair, just like everything else (at least if you're English). We've invested heavily into science and it will pay off massively in the future. Any mainstream politician who spoke too loudly in public about faith and in too much of an aggressive and dogmatic manner would be seen as behaving improperly - even by the majority of Christians.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 07:55:26 pm by jamesA01 »