Show Posts
1
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Thoughts about the overall story, ending etc
« on: July 11, 2017, 12:02:32 am »
So first up my overall impression on reading the ending, then some thoughts and questions on What .The. F*@K. Just. Happened?
I’ve been reading these books for the best part of a decade now and I’ve got to say I totally loved how the Aspect-Emperor sequence ended. Loved, loved, loved it! Brutal. Dark. Bleak. Brilliant.
How many decades long series have you invested yourself in, for the final book to build to a momentous finale where it appears the bad guys will win only for the Farm-boy-Come-Warrior-Sorcerer to pull off a masterstroke in the final pages to turn the tide and save the world. I know I’ve read a few and they never really satisfy.
Enter Scott “Not on my watch” Bakker! It was deeply satisfying to read a series where the bad guys actual won and it wasn’t through some secret weapon or power suddenly revealed in the final pages. It was through a long and deliberate strategy executed in the background – but hinted subtly throughout. Totally brilliant and I can’t think of another series I’ve read that has come close to pulling something like this off (maybe Erikkson’s The Crippled God, but that was more of a “the bad guys is really just a bit misunderstood, let’s help him on his way” sort of ending).
The Next Sequence.
So we’ve known for a while from RSB this sequence can’t be named until the Aspect-Emperor sequence was finished as it forms a massive spoiler. Given that and early release reviews of TUC saying it ended in a massive cliff-hanger I had started to suspect the No-God would be resurrected and my guess is that final sequence itself is simply going to be titled “The No-God”. It has a certain symmetry to it as well: “Prince of Nothing”, “Aspect Emperor”, “The No-God” – Prince/Emperor/(No)God.
As I read the TUC early on I started to think the ending would involve Kellhus saving the world from the Consult only to voluntarily step into the Carapace on the last line of the book to become the No-God. Close, but no cigar!
Achamian’s Dreams.
Apart from leading him to Ishuäl, Achamian’s “non-standard” Mandati dreams had hinted, if not spelled out by the end of TGO, just who was inside the No-God’s Carapace – Nau-Cayûti Anasûrimbor, plucked from what the rest of the world though was his coffin by the Consult, only to be entombed within the Carapace to awaken the No-God. Whilst this was not explicitly shown in the dreams I felt it was where they were going and what they were showing Achamian – an Anasûrimbor had awoken the No-God. The timeline in the TTFT’s encyclopaedia backed this up – roughly a few years after Nau-Cayûti’s “death”, the No-God was resurrected. So, given that Kellhus’ ancestor (direct ancestor? Or does Kellhus’ line descend from a sibling?) awoke the No-God, it seemed likely he would be required to resurrect it.
We never did learn explicitly where Achamian’s new dreams came from, but I do wonder, could it have been the Consult themselves? Specifically, the Mutilated. We know they not only have mastered the Tekne but they can also use sorcery. Like Mohengius before them who sent dreams to his brethren to start the whole thing rolling back in TDTCB, could it be the Mutilated themselves sending the dreams to Achamian? As to why and to what end, those are really good questions yet to be resolved I think!
Kellhus.
To me the overarching theme for me in reading the Aspect Emperor sequence was: Just What The Hell (pun not intended at the time!) is Kellhus up to? Unlike the Prince of Nothing sequence, where we had numerous chapters written from Kellhus’ POV, we had virtually no insights into his thought process in the Aspect Emperor. Clearly this was a deliberate literally decision as RSB wanted us thinking about what Kellhus’ endgame was. Is he in league with the Consult as Mohengius foretold would be the shortest path, or had he found some other way to avoid damnation? Achamian and Mimara’s storyline was essentially to discover this answer and they fall agonisingly short of finding the answer (Mimara’s Judging Eye refusing to open on the rare occasions she glimpses Kellhus in TUC). The rare Kellhus POV we got was in TGO – his Head on a Stick chapter and a reread makes a lot more sense now. He strikes a bargain with Hell itself to save himself (at the cost of the world) from damnation. He will not join the Consult or become the No-God but is his alternative any better for mankind? Arguably not.
The Consult.
Which brings me to the Consult themselves. I was initially disappointed at discovering the Consult had been subverted by the Mutilated but the more I think about it, the more obvious and fitting it seems. As Kellhus himself articulates – it’s a natural extrapolation of events should the Consult find and capture the Dûnyain and indeed is fortold by Mohengius himself as one logical outcome of the TTFT.
Kellhus mentions he suspected this outcome but Daglish confirmed it. I do wonder what about Daglish and the a-bomb shouted “Dûnyain” to him? Perhaps it’s the fact that the original Consult of Men-Nonmen-Inchori lacked the capability to come up with such a direct attack? Would it not have been simpler years ago to smuggle an atomic bomb into Shimeh and press “go”? Could it be that the use of such a weapon is not something the original Consult had considered but to the Dûnyain it’s simply “the shortest path”?
Given the Mutilated have been guiding the Consult for most (all?) of the Aspect Emperor’s timeline, further questions abound as to what the Shortest Path bid them to do differently.
The Resumption.
The book ends with Kelmomas becoming the No-God instead of Kellhus. Did. Not. See. That. Coming! Well, I had a vague suspicion start to from mid-way through the finale – “hey where is Kelmomas, didn’t he free himself? What is he up to?” and then in that final sequence, so caught up in reading the narrative at break-neck pace, I nearly missed it … “a little boy threading the spaces between” .. suddenly, with that sentence you knew the ending you thought was unfolding just got totally flipped.
In reflecting on this ending I wonder how much of it was “conditioned ground” of the Mutilated. How much of this had the Consult planned? Those Kelmomas chapters right back to chapter 1 of The Judging Eye are going to require some very careful re-reading! Could it be the inner voice of Kelmomas is not his twin Samarmas (real or mad imaginations) but the Consult all along? How much of his storyline will reveal the Consult’s machinations all along?
EDIT: have since re-read those Kelmomas POV chapters. That inner voice is DEFINITELY the Mutilated. Re-read the chapter between Kelmomas and Inrilatas, the inner voice provides extremely unusual insights into how Inrilatas is conditioning Kelmomas… Dûnyain like insights one would say… hmmm…
One point of confusion with the Consult’s No-God strategy is how it fits with the insights we gained during their POV chapters in The Prince of Nothing sequence… they were sure they were mere years away from the resumption. Yet, the appearance of Kellhus amongst the Holy War took them by surprise. How then were they intending to awaken the No-God? Given a millennia of feeding random souls to it the first time around had failed? Confused.
The No-God.
Some interesting theories in here about just what happened when Kellhus floats down to the Ordealmen in apparent victory and then transforms into the No-God upon Minama’s Judging Eye gazing upon it. I could go with either theory – time certainly is not presented in a linear manner in those chapters. The stillbirth of the second twin would indicate the “awakening” of the No-God yet no sense of “boding” is felt by the ordeal, that’s the one inconsistency that others point out, I can’t reconcile.
The scene where the No-God talks to Minama is totally bad ass! What do you see…. WHAT AM I? Made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.
Thinking further about this scene. Since midway through the WLW I had interpreted the No-God’s booming “WHAT DO YOU SEE. WHAT AM I” as proof that Nau-Cayûti is trapped within. However, what if this scene in the TUC is not an echo of this, but perhaps the origin? There are many theories that the No-God exists outside of time and what if all those encounters with the No-God in the first apocalypse – WHAT AM I – is a backward echo in time of this particular scene? Heavy stuff.
I’ve been reading these books for the best part of a decade now and I’ve got to say I totally loved how the Aspect-Emperor sequence ended. Loved, loved, loved it! Brutal. Dark. Bleak. Brilliant.
How many decades long series have you invested yourself in, for the final book to build to a momentous finale where it appears the bad guys will win only for the Farm-boy-Come-Warrior-Sorcerer to pull off a masterstroke in the final pages to turn the tide and save the world. I know I’ve read a few and they never really satisfy.
Enter Scott “Not on my watch” Bakker! It was deeply satisfying to read a series where the bad guys actual won and it wasn’t through some secret weapon or power suddenly revealed in the final pages. It was through a long and deliberate strategy executed in the background – but hinted subtly throughout. Totally brilliant and I can’t think of another series I’ve read that has come close to pulling something like this off (maybe Erikkson’s The Crippled God, but that was more of a “the bad guys is really just a bit misunderstood, let’s help him on his way” sort of ending).
The Next Sequence.
So we’ve known for a while from RSB this sequence can’t be named until the Aspect-Emperor sequence was finished as it forms a massive spoiler. Given that and early release reviews of TUC saying it ended in a massive cliff-hanger I had started to suspect the No-God would be resurrected and my guess is that final sequence itself is simply going to be titled “The No-God”. It has a certain symmetry to it as well: “Prince of Nothing”, “Aspect Emperor”, “The No-God” – Prince/Emperor/(No)God.
As I read the TUC early on I started to think the ending would involve Kellhus saving the world from the Consult only to voluntarily step into the Carapace on the last line of the book to become the No-God. Close, but no cigar!
Achamian’s Dreams.
Apart from leading him to Ishuäl, Achamian’s “non-standard” Mandati dreams had hinted, if not spelled out by the end of TGO, just who was inside the No-God’s Carapace – Nau-Cayûti Anasûrimbor, plucked from what the rest of the world though was his coffin by the Consult, only to be entombed within the Carapace to awaken the No-God. Whilst this was not explicitly shown in the dreams I felt it was where they were going and what they were showing Achamian – an Anasûrimbor had awoken the No-God. The timeline in the TTFT’s encyclopaedia backed this up – roughly a few years after Nau-Cayûti’s “death”, the No-God was resurrected. So, given that Kellhus’ ancestor (direct ancestor? Or does Kellhus’ line descend from a sibling?) awoke the No-God, it seemed likely he would be required to resurrect it.
We never did learn explicitly where Achamian’s new dreams came from, but I do wonder, could it have been the Consult themselves? Specifically, the Mutilated. We know they not only have mastered the Tekne but they can also use sorcery. Like Mohengius before them who sent dreams to his brethren to start the whole thing rolling back in TDTCB, could it be the Mutilated themselves sending the dreams to Achamian? As to why and to what end, those are really good questions yet to be resolved I think!
Kellhus.
To me the overarching theme for me in reading the Aspect Emperor sequence was: Just What The Hell (pun not intended at the time!) is Kellhus up to? Unlike the Prince of Nothing sequence, where we had numerous chapters written from Kellhus’ POV, we had virtually no insights into his thought process in the Aspect Emperor. Clearly this was a deliberate literally decision as RSB wanted us thinking about what Kellhus’ endgame was. Is he in league with the Consult as Mohengius foretold would be the shortest path, or had he found some other way to avoid damnation? Achamian and Mimara’s storyline was essentially to discover this answer and they fall agonisingly short of finding the answer (Mimara’s Judging Eye refusing to open on the rare occasions she glimpses Kellhus in TUC). The rare Kellhus POV we got was in TGO – his Head on a Stick chapter and a reread makes a lot more sense now. He strikes a bargain with Hell itself to save himself (at the cost of the world) from damnation. He will not join the Consult or become the No-God but is his alternative any better for mankind? Arguably not.
The Consult.
Which brings me to the Consult themselves. I was initially disappointed at discovering the Consult had been subverted by the Mutilated but the more I think about it, the more obvious and fitting it seems. As Kellhus himself articulates – it’s a natural extrapolation of events should the Consult find and capture the Dûnyain and indeed is fortold by Mohengius himself as one logical outcome of the TTFT.
Kellhus mentions he suspected this outcome but Daglish confirmed it. I do wonder what about Daglish and the a-bomb shouted “Dûnyain” to him? Perhaps it’s the fact that the original Consult of Men-Nonmen-Inchori lacked the capability to come up with such a direct attack? Would it not have been simpler years ago to smuggle an atomic bomb into Shimeh and press “go”? Could it be that the use of such a weapon is not something the original Consult had considered but to the Dûnyain it’s simply “the shortest path”?
Given the Mutilated have been guiding the Consult for most (all?) of the Aspect Emperor’s timeline, further questions abound as to what the Shortest Path bid them to do differently.
The Resumption.
The book ends with Kelmomas becoming the No-God instead of Kellhus. Did. Not. See. That. Coming! Well, I had a vague suspicion start to from mid-way through the finale – “hey where is Kelmomas, didn’t he free himself? What is he up to?” and then in that final sequence, so caught up in reading the narrative at break-neck pace, I nearly missed it … “a little boy threading the spaces between” .. suddenly, with that sentence you knew the ending you thought was unfolding just got totally flipped.
In reflecting on this ending I wonder how much of it was “conditioned ground” of the Mutilated. How much of this had the Consult planned? Those Kelmomas chapters right back to chapter 1 of The Judging Eye are going to require some very careful re-reading! Could it be the inner voice of Kelmomas is not his twin Samarmas (real or mad imaginations) but the Consult all along? How much of his storyline will reveal the Consult’s machinations all along?
EDIT: have since re-read those Kelmomas POV chapters. That inner voice is DEFINITELY the Mutilated. Re-read the chapter between Kelmomas and Inrilatas, the inner voice provides extremely unusual insights into how Inrilatas is conditioning Kelmomas… Dûnyain like insights one would say… hmmm…
One point of confusion with the Consult’s No-God strategy is how it fits with the insights we gained during their POV chapters in The Prince of Nothing sequence… they were sure they were mere years away from the resumption. Yet, the appearance of Kellhus amongst the Holy War took them by surprise. How then were they intending to awaken the No-God? Given a millennia of feeding random souls to it the first time around had failed? Confused.
The No-God.
Some interesting theories in here about just what happened when Kellhus floats down to the Ordealmen in apparent victory and then transforms into the No-God upon Minama’s Judging Eye gazing upon it. I could go with either theory – time certainly is not presented in a linear manner in those chapters. The stillbirth of the second twin would indicate the “awakening” of the No-God yet no sense of “boding” is felt by the ordeal, that’s the one inconsistency that others point out, I can’t reconcile.
The scene where the No-God talks to Minama is totally bad ass! What do you see…. WHAT AM I? Made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.
Thinking further about this scene. Since midway through the WLW I had interpreted the No-God’s booming “WHAT DO YOU SEE. WHAT AM I” as proof that Nau-Cayûti is trapped within. However, what if this scene in the TUC is not an echo of this, but perhaps the origin? There are many theories that the No-God exists outside of time and what if all those encounters with the No-God in the first apocalypse – WHAT AM I – is a backward echo in time of this particular scene? Heavy stuff.
