Poll

Provided there is more story coming, do you think there is a time skip forward of a few years, or do you think the story continues from the end of TUC

Story jumps forward a significant period of time
7 (46.7%)
Story continues from basically the end of TUC
8 (53.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

[TUC SPOILERS] After this...

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Walter

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« on: July 11, 2017, 04:15:24 pm »
Obviously, the end of TUC leaves us the world in a terrible bind.  Do you think we pick up right where we leave off, or do you think we pick up a few years down the road?

[EDIT Madness: Rearranged Subject]
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 11:14:11 am by Madness »

H

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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 04:31:45 pm »
I think there would be a jump, because my feeling is that Crabicus and Akka Jr. would be important...
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Redeagl

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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 04:34:09 pm »
Crabicus is the same age of Kelmomas, no?  I would say pick up right where TUC left. I would really like to see the Shock on the characters and the beginning of the Apocalypse.
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

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Wilshire

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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 04:38:23 pm »
I pretty torn between the options.

I want Akka junior to be of importance, and the other children.

Then again, I want to see the Saga's rehashed, with Akka playing Seswatha with Zeum.

It could go so many directions!

Best case for me might be a timeskip, but we get a dozen great Atrocity  tales about the beginning of the Second Apocalypse.
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H

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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 04:40:12 pm »
Crabicus is the same age of Kelmomas, no?  I would say pick up right where TUC left. I would really like to see the Shock on the characters and the beginning of the Apocalypse.

I'd like that too, but it just doesn't seem probable to me...

If so, then how long does the "series" span?  A year, total?  Maybe two?
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Hiro

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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 04:41:25 pm »
Crabicus is the same age of Kelmomas, no?  I would say pick up right where TUC left. I would really like to see the Shock on the characters and the beginning of the Apocalypse.

It can always be a combination, the main storyline taking place some years later with flashbacks (in whatever form) to fill in the beginning. It depends on the amount of books...
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Simas Polchias

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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 04:42:58 pm »
1) We don't pick up at all. Witn accordance to my under-nick-title, I'm quite happy about this ending. World is shut, everything is ok. Why wish for more? Nopeity-nope.
2) We pick up thousands of years later. Like a sequel about space refugees from Earwa, who suffer semantic apocalypse and dissapear in favour of the sentient space ship resembling the-Arc-before-the-Fall.
3) We pick up thousands of years earlier. For Apocalypse in unceasing and cannot be cut in two.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 05:27:16 pm by Simas Polchias »

Wilshire

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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 04:47:21 pm »
1) We don't pick up at all. Witn accordance to my under-nick-title, I'm quite happy about this ending. World is shut, everything is ok. Why wish for more? Nopeity-nope.


This is great. I wish the world was more like you :) .
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H

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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 04:51:42 pm »
One issue with not seeing what happens after is that it would really leave us asking, what was the whole point of Mimara's existence in the books?

Because she basically does nothing of any real consequence, besides banishing the Wight....
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 04:58:14 pm »
One issue with not seeing what happens after is that it would really leave us asking, what was the whole point of Mimara's existence in the books?

Because she basically does nothing of any real consequence, besides banishing the Wight....
Plenty of loose ends that don't fulfill any purpose for being in the story, I'd agree.
Mimara and TJE definitely - just becomes a handy world-building tool that is poorly utilized.
Zeum, the Ciphrang-head, etc.
Mimara/Akka's twins

And tons of unanswered world-building type questions that, left the way they are, make the world seem shallow - like all the obfuscation was to disguise how little things are really fleshed out. The hope of more books allows me to continue the illusion. I don't think "like Malazan, except with more questions and fewer answers" will help with sales much lol.
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Heavenfall

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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 12:24:11 pm »
I'd go a step further and say the entire Mimara/Achiaman arc, no matter how interesting and well-crafted, added nothing to the events that took place at Golgotterath or The Great Ordeal. They didn't find the Heron Spear, Achiaman never found any significance to his altered dreams (maybe we will in re-reads), he doesn't give any valuable information to Kellhus ("btw, your grandson from Ishual is alive"). They did find out that Ishûal had been conquered but Kellhus already knew that. Mimara never sees Kellhus with the Judging Eye. Her baby is born, it has a stillborn twin, and "all prophecies must be respected", but it dead-ends after the baby is born.The tiniest bit of measurable impact was that the Witch daughter stole their cocaine after getting blasted with the Heron Spear v.2, and she used that to fight the wracu in the Intrinsic Gate but that too never lead anywhere (except work as a reason why Kellhus was alone?).

Kelmomas/Esmenet at least had an impact, and I'm far more looking forward to re-reading their chapters.

I'm getting the sinking feeling that there is a lot of set-up for the next series. Kauytas, Crabicus, Mimara's child, witch-daughter-that-I-can't-name are basically the next book's POVs I think. Not that there's anything wrong with building on this series, but it does mean that we spent a lot of time reading about things that ultimately had almost no significance to the second apocalypse.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:34:44 pm by Heavenfall »

Walter

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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 12:29:15 pm »
I guess... I never really saw Akka/Mimara's arc as having much to do with Golgotterath and/or the Ordeal.  Their arc is much more about their internal states, its payoff is in Mimara's reaction to Esmenet, and Akka's to Proyus.

Wilshire

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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 12:43:26 pm »
I guess... I never really saw Akka/Mimara's arc as having much to do with Golgotterath and/or the Ordeal.  Their arc is much more about their internal states, its payoff is in Mimara's reaction to Esmenet, and Akka's to Proyus.
Yeah, as a personal affair/journey, it yields powerful dividends at the end, and I enjoyed it tbh.


Heavenfall, I think you might be being a bit too harsh. I think the simplest explination for Akka/Mimara is world building - there story was important for understanding the larger Earwa world as a whole. Without them, you pretty much just have a 'normal' swords and sandals fantasy / war narrative. TSA loses its interest if you isolate and remove all the extra stuff that happens beyond the scope of major events.
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Cuttlefish

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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 12:47:18 pm »
Well, when you think about it, pretty much every storyline except Kellhus's own have led to a dead end.

Sorweel, Serwa, the Nonmen and Yatwer? Right, Sorweel and Serwa's character growth did not serve any purpose as both of them (or maybe only one) got killed before truly having an effect on the events. They did make the last Nonmen defect to the Great Ordeal's side, and march to the battle, but well, that didn't really have an impact on the ending, did it?

Esmenet and Kelmomas - this storyline had an obvious impact by Kelmomas's involvement in the Inverse Fire room, but you have to ask if three books' worth of content about Momemn (I really have no idea how to pronounce the name of any place in this universe) politics, Yatwer cult and the Fanim attack were neccessary to that conclusion.

Achamian and Mimara? No effect so far whatsoever, save for Mimara using the Judging Eye on Kellhus/No-God at the end (assuming it did have an effect on what was actually happening, at that point). Again, you have to ask yourself if three books of Skin Eaters, Cleric and Ishual were neccessary for that conclusion.

Cnaiür and his Junior? No effect so far, but this one ended on a cliffhanger.

Proyas and the Great Ordeal? Seeing that the Great Ordeal did not actually contribute to the ending, and instead merely served as meatshields while Kellhus was having a civil conversation with his Dunyain brothers, I'll say this one didn't really have an effect either. Someone around these parts raised the point that, there seemed to be no argument against Kellhus just magically going to Golgotterath and doing what he was supposed to do, without involving the Great Ordeal.

But I expect these storylines, as ineffectual as they were to the finale of TUC, to have impacts for the next series. Mimara's something of a prophet that may influence the world; she and Achamian have discovered what appears to be the last remaining full blooded Dunyain who hasn't gone over to the Consult (that one is, I think, one of the most obvious plot points to be followed), Esmenet storyline has left off Three Seas in a state of civil war, definitely unready for an invasion, while the death of the Great Ordeal wipes out the greatest army men were capable of producing. Sadly, I can't see my favourite storyline, Ishterebinth, having any influence. Maybe the death of the Nonmen will mean something.

Wilshire

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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 12:56:54 pm »
Well, when you think about it, pretty much every storyline except Kellhus's own have led to a dead end.
Agreed. But TSA would be a trash story if we just followed Kellhus as the main character from TDTCB through TUC. All the other stories have a point, not that I understand them, but I do know they add a lot to the story.  Without them the entire thing might as well be a Glossary with pages of text defining each thing - which isn't a story at all.


But I expect these storylines, as ineffectual as they were to the finale of TUC, to have impacts for the next series. Mimara's something of a prophet that may influence the world; she and Achamian have discovered what appears to be the last remaining full blooded Dunyain who hasn't gone over to the Consult (that one is, I think, one of the most obvious plot points to be followed), Esmenet storyline has left off Three Seas in a state of civil war, definitely unready for an invasion, while the death of the Great Ordeal wipes out the greatest army men were capable of producing. Sadly, I can't see my favourite storyline, Ishterebinth, having any influence. Maybe the death of the Nonmen will mean something.
That's really the hope, but imo a terrible choice by Bakker. A lot of the interest of TSA hangs on future books and future explanations, and people will get tired of it. I've been saying it for some time now, but I think Bakker will be more popular once everything is released. This waiting years between books isn't doing anything good for his sales, and unfortunately he might never get that chance as once these things are gathering dust on ethereal cloud servers, no one will see them anyway ;) .
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