On the Nature of the No-God

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H

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« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2015, 08:34:05 pm »
H you have to be right, but i don't know what to make of it???

perhaps this points to No-Gog is God ... God trapped in a coffin or God forced to stare into the Inverse Fire or God with his eyes gouged out by whatshis name, the king of Caraskand?  God as reconstituted?  i mean, the Carapace forces all the fragments of God back into a whole and that whole is not very nice?

I think part of it is Scott purposely puts in all these biblical parallels, that aren't really parallels at all.  I think in a lot of cases, they are a bunch of window dressings, a way to frame how we see things, not explain what we see, if that makes sense.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

mrganondorf

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« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2015, 08:57:36 pm »
H you have to be right, but i don't know what to make of it???

perhaps this points to No-Gog is God ... God trapped in a coffin or God forced to stare into the Inverse Fire or God with his eyes gouged out by whatshis name, the king of Caraskand?  God as reconstituted?  i mean, the Carapace forces all the fragments of God back into a whole and that whole is not very nice?

I think part of it is Scott purposely puts in all these biblical parallels, that aren't really parallels at all.  I think in a lot of cases, they are a bunch of window dressings, a way to frame how we see things, not explain what we see, if that makes sense.

THE DECEIVER!  he's got so many false trails for the reader to follow.  i bet some of them will be meaningful parallels but we won't know until it's all over :(

H

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« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2015, 09:00:36 pm »
H you have to be right, but i don't know what to make of it???

perhaps this points to No-Gog is God ... God trapped in a coffin or God forced to stare into the Inverse Fire or God with his eyes gouged out by whatshis name, the king of Caraskand?  God as reconstituted?  i mean, the Carapace forces all the fragments of God back into a whole and that whole is not very nice?

I think part of it is Scott purposely puts in all these biblical parallels, that aren't really parallels at all.  I think in a lot of cases, they are a bunch of window dressings, a way to frame how we see things, not explain what we see, if that makes sense.

THE DECEIVER!  he's got so many false trails for the reader to follow.  i bet some of them will be meaningful parallels but we won't know until it's all over :(

Yeah, even better to bury the one parallel that is important in the 20 that aren't really.  The same probably goes for all of Akka's dreams, so much that we don't have time to analyze, yet some of it must shed light on something.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

mrganondorf

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« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2016, 09:06:40 pm »
So a single chorae can zap out a Scarlet Spires Standard Ciphrang, but a single chorae should not be able to bother something like the Seal of Cil-Aujus.  Perhaps there is a choric scale?  If that is the case, perhaps the Carapace is a Divinity-Containment Device.  It has 11 chorae.  The Consult may have figured out how to multiply/exponentially increase chorae when used in groups or maybe the whole Carapace is choric.  So they may have enough choric stuff going on to trap and contain a freakin deity.  Like Yatwer or Ajokli or Onkhis or whatever.  Maybe.  As in, 1 chorae would not be enough to banish Ajokli back to the Outside.  1 million chorae would be.  11 chorae cleverly situated just so plus X factors and the Consult trap a god or the God in the world.

Also, it is interesting that no one in the text has commented on Mog's mark.  With 11 chorae, it would seem that the Carapace should have a mark or that Seswatha would be like "wtf--did they put 11 fake chorae on just for hood ornaments?"

Unrelated--I wonder if Mog has a mirroring effect.  That is, when the Consult bring forth Mog in Earwa, perhaps it creates a Mirror Mog within the Outside.  If the Outside is nothing but Hell, maybe this is the Inchoroi attempt to create Heaven--an island of respite for Sil and all those lost.  Or to extend it, if Mog is a soul-catching device, perhaps the Consult intend to let it run until nearly ever soul (human, ciphrang, god) is sucked into it clearing out the Outside entirely except for people in the Obscenity Club who get to snap up all the unoccupied land.

MSJ

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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2016, 01:56:07 pm »
MG, I was just reading quotes from RSB the other day on here. He said, the effect the chorae has on sorcery is directly correlated to the Mark. So I guess, if the Mark is deeper The effect is therefore different than say....a Cishaurim with NO Mark.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2016, 02:11:59 pm »
Right, the effect that Chorae have is on meaning.  It undoes Cishaurim and Sorcerers because it unravels meaning, in the case of Cishaurim they are beings of living meaningfulness where sorcerers are beings of constructed meaning.  It doesn't really matter, because the paradox of the Chorae undoes it all.

The Carapace is perhaps two-fold in its purpose.  One, the Chorae protect it from sorcery.  Second, they force back any meaning that could seep in, keeping the No-God as a meaning-sink (or annihilator of meaning).
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

mrganondorf

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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2016, 12:43:43 am »
MG, I was just reading quotes from RSB the other day on here. He said, the effect the chorae has on sorcery is directly correlated to the Mark. So I guess, if the Mark is deeper The effect is therefore different than say....a Cishaurim with NO Mark.

Damnit, i am so daft i don't think i get what you are getting at.  A chorae's effect decreases if the Mark is darker?

Right, the effect that Chorae have is on meaning.  It undoes Cishaurim and Sorcerers because it unravels meaning, in the case of Cishaurim they are beings of living meaningfulness where sorcerers are beings of constructed meaning.  It doesn't really matter, because the paradox of the Chorae undoes it all.

The Carapace is perhaps two-fold in its purpose.  One, the Chorae protect it from sorcery.  Second, they force back any meaning that could seep in, keeping the No-God as a meaning-sink (or annihilator of meaning).

I'm probably wrong about Mog however it does seem like chorae function, to some degree, as a kind of boundary/shield.  If one can use a chorae to keep sorcery 'out,' away from effecting oneself, it seems possible that could could hem sorcery/godmagic 'in' as well.  i guess  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

MSJ

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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2016, 12:50:05 am »
Quote
Damnit, i am so daft i don't think i get what you are getting at.  A chorae's effect decreases if the Mark is darker?

No, I took it as the Choraes effect increases with a deeper Mark.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2016, 11:39:26 am »
Quote
Damnit, i am so daft i don't think i get what you are getting at.  A chorae's effect decreases if the Mark is darker?

No, I took it as the Choraes effect increases with a deeper Mark.

Yeah, I believe this is true.  When the Chorae undoes the meaning, the deeper the Mark, the larger and more dramatic  the reckoning is.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

mrganondorf

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« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2016, 05:34:11 pm »
Quote
Damnit, i am so daft i don't think i get what you are getting at.  A chorae's effect decreases if the Mark is darker?

No, I took it as the Choraes effect increases with a deeper Mark.

Yeah, I believe this is true.  When the Chorae undoes the meaning, the deeper the Mark, the larger and more dramatic  the reckoning is.

i'm sorry to be son dense, but could you guys check if i'm following along ok?

so ...

chorae X vs ciphrang A = ciphrang A is sent back to the Outside
chorae X vs ciphrang B (this ciphrang has a deeper mark) = ciphrang B is sent back to the Outside in a more forceful way?

the Seal at Cil-Aujus-- H you do not see this as something like a even bigger Ciphrang?

MSJ

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« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2016, 05:37:29 pm »
Quote
Damnit, i am so daft i don't think i get what you are getting at.  A chorae's effect decreases if the Mark is darker?

No, I took it as the Choraes effect increases with a deeper Mark.

Yeah, I believe this is true.  When the Chorae undoes the meaning, the deeper the Mark, the larger and more dramatic  the reckoning is.

i'm sorry to be son dense, but could you guys check if i'm following along ok?

so ...

chorae X vs ciphrang A = ciphrang A is sent back to the Outside
chorae X vs ciphrang B (this ciphrang has a deeper mark) = ciphrang B is sent back to the Outside in a more forceful way?

the Seal at Cil-Aujus-- H you do not see this as something like a even bigger Ciphrang?


Cish have no Mark so the just go up in a flash of light. Sorcerers salt and im sure the deeper the Mark the more horrific that salting is. What went down in Cil-Aujus is something else entirely I believe.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2016, 01:21:24 pm »
the Seal at Cil-Aujus-- H you do not see this as something like a even bigger Ciphrang?

While I think it is similar, no, I don't think it is the same.  A ciphrang seems to be more a demon, as we would recon it, a being fully from the Outside thrust back into the Inside.  The Wight-in-the-Mountain is more a ghost, as we might call it, it is not a being fully of the Outside, nor is it fully of the Inside.

I imagine that the Topoi is a purgatory of sorts, hanging the wight somewhere between the Outside and the Inside.  This could explain why it retains it's "worldly" visage, rather than being the a twisted demon thing like we see Ciphrang are.  Actually, I kind of like the "topoi as purgatory" idea.  It gives us an additional understand as to why souls don't "move on" from their location.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2016, 03:08:36 pm »
H., I like the parallel there with purgatory. The Wight was neither living or a demon (ciphrang) of the outside. So, while I don't know exactly what happened there, the chorae seemed to hold it in its place (purgatory). Rather than killing it or banishing it to The Outside. That actually makes a ton of sense.

YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!!
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2016, 05:55:57 pm »
H., I like the parallel there with purgatory. The Wight was neither living or a demon (ciphrang) of the outside. So, while I don't know exactly what happened there, the chorae seemed to hold it in its place (purgatory). Rather than killing it or banishing it to The Outside. That actually makes a ton of sense.

YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!!

It also sort of explains why the Battleplain is referenced in the glossary with the following line: “[The] soul that encounters Him passes no further.”  It's not just the Battleplain then, that just happened to be the biggest and most famous topoi (besides Golgotterath, but no one that goes there really comes back).
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 05:51:02 am »
Topoi being hellish purgatories is brilliant. It rings of many of the little side mechanisms to the worldbuilding, which are often broad ideas used to explain the existence of many similar types of supernatural or spritual archetypes. Topoi wrap up ghosts (using the common notion of horrific deaths or lives making the strongest "psychic imprint" or whatever), the entire concept of a "haunted" place, and links it to both Hell and Purgatory.