The Inchoroi

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« Reply #90 on: June 02, 2013, 04:38:35 pm »
Quote from: Triskele
Quote from: Madness
Lol... remember Nerdanel and Cleric is Nin'janjin.

Nerdanel actually was going for Cleric as Mek while Cleric as Nin'janjin seemed to be the consensus around Westeros for a while.

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« Reply #91 on: June 02, 2013, 04:38:43 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
And Triskele was the one who reasoned out that it would be Nil Giccas though I don't remember how he did so.

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« Reply #92 on: June 02, 2013, 04:38:51 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: lockesnow
RE: Nin'Janjin, he was of Viri. The likely place for him (or his wight) to be would be within the bowels of his mansion, Viri. So the possibility is there that he would encounter Titirga, if Titirga survived.

My impression is that Viri was ruined by the Ark's crash, and that Nin'janjin didn't go back to his former home after his years of living in the Ark. From reading that bit, I got the vibe that he was with the army of Siöl when they marched to battle, and then backstabbed Cujara-Cinmoi when he got the chance.

No idea where he might be, if he's even alive at this point. My guess is either Ishterebinth or Golgotterath.

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« Reply #93 on: June 02, 2013, 04:38:57 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
Quote from: Auriga

My impression is that Viri was ruined by the Ark's crash,

Viri wasn't completely ruined, something being built on top of it was the key to Shaeonanra's plans to kill Titirga.

Quote
The Sky has cracked into potter's shards,
Fire sweeps the compass of Heaven,
Ash has shrouded all sun, choked all seed,
The Halaroi howl piteously at the Gates,
Dread Famine stalks my Mansion.
Brother Siöl, Viri begs your pardon.

That says famine ruined Viri.  further, we know that Siol conquered Viri after receiving this information, so it would have been sacked, but we shouldn't assume that they demolished or ruined Viri irreparably in the sack.   It may have stood empty with neither man, nonman or sranc inhabiting it at this time.

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« Reply #94 on: June 02, 2013, 04:39:04 pm »
Quote from: Triskele
Quote from: lockesnow
And Triskele was the one who reasoned out that it would be Nil Giccas though I don't remember how he did so.

I wasn't the first one to ever throw the name out (and I think it was a boarder named "Inacariol," lol). 

But after the Nin'janjin thing was going for a while it just wasn't jiving for me. 

The one thing that I caught was that Akka is having a Seswatha dream in Cil-Aujas that ends w/ "Even Nil'Giccas rides w/ you..." or something like that, and he wakes up w/ Cleric staring at him.  I never had full confidence that it was a clue, but it made me very suspicious.  After that it was just reasoning that Cleric had to be someone rather than just some random Nonman, and I just didn't buy Mek or Nin, so NG was the winner.

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« Reply #95 on: June 02, 2013, 04:39:11 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Lol, Big +1 lockesnow and Triskele.

Auriga, I seem to recall that Nogaral is built two centuries before Shaenanra lived so I doubt it could be with the intention of entrapping Titirga. By the point of its building, I'm pretty sure its so the Mangaecca and its former Grandviziers could aid Mekeritrig in breaking the Architect's Glamour.

Although, you've made me think - Nin'sariccas calls himself a "Dispossessed Son of Soil," yet Nin'janjin is of Viri.

Bakker probably giggled himself silly writing that, Trisk lol.

Btw, ftw on Incariol, right? What was the point of Cleric's third name? Incariol was the name he took as an Erratic Identity and Cleric is the name men gave him?

locke

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« Reply #96 on: June 03, 2013, 08:13:24 am »
Quote
The Sky has cracked into potter's shards,
Fire sweeps the compass of Heaven,
Ash has shrouded all sun, choked all seed,
The Halaroi howl piteously at the Gates,
Dread Famine stalks my Mansion.
Brother Siöl, Viri begs your pardon.

This has two sentences. So we can take it as two parts.

In the first sentence, and the epistle as a whole, the first character after a carriage return is capitalized, we can probably ignore these capitalizations as insignificant, mere style.

In the second part, two proper nouns are capitalized.

In the first part, common nouns are not capitalized, but Famine is capitalized (used in context as though it were a proper noun and Famine represented an anthropomorphicpersonification), and a race name is capitalized, Halaroi, also used as a proper noun.

This leaves three words standing out in the middle of a sentence and possessing unusual capitalization, signifying perhaps additional meaning that justifies their capitalization.

Heaven, Gates, Mansion

Heaven
Gates
Mansion

We know the Heavens are the skies above the surface of the earth.
We know that Mansions are the bowels and pits beneath the surface of the earth.

We could posit that this suggests a Heaven/Hell traditional dichotomy, with the mansions as Hell.

We could further posit that The Gates suggests a middle ground, or a middle earth, in between the Heavens above and the Mansions (Hell) below.  Or, more literally, The Gates suggest there is literally a Gate between Heaven and Hell, that connects the two together and affixes them to each other.

Interestingly, You could argue a Great Medial Screw might be a lynchpin device that attaches Heaven to Hell (mansion) as literally as a screw attaches drywall to a stud.  Interestingly, when characters approached such a Great Medial Screw, they were attacked by a creature described as bringing Hell with him, a creature who complained/screamed that the Gates were unguarded when they approached the screw...  Almost as if they were approaching the Gates.

Interestingly, we have a building/trap constructed on top of a similar Screw at Viri, and the assessment of this depth/pit was described as "a warning to those who would delve to deep."  Which could perhaps be interpreted as, if you dig deeper into hell in your Screw/Gate, you open an even bigger Gate, a Gate that would be harder to guard.

Interestingly, we also have a story about the holiest of holy humans to ever live ascending to Heaven at a Screw/Gate.

Interestingly, the Halaroi pits, where they were imprisoned was very near the Great Medial Screw, which could suggest they were perhaps part of the guard, or more like the great seal of the library of sauglish or shaeonanra's circle of immortality, perhaps The Halaroi were lashed to the Screw to power it, and as they starved, they howled piteously at the Gates.

All of this comes together to suggest that the nonmen were committing unfathomable atrocities and perhaps literally tried to pin heaven to earth with their screws, perhaps to allow them to ascend, perhaps to allow them to descend.  But perhaps these screws had consequences beyond, galactically far beyond anything the nonmen ever conceived, and the portals they believed connected the heavens to the earth was causing all sorts of havoc throughout the universe and caused a ship to fall from the heavens to the earth, and very nearly into the deepest mansions.

Which would all go to explain the second part of the quote as "begs your pardon" As literally what it is asking for, not a metaphor for an apology or a metaphor for a plea for assistance.  It's a plea for forgiveness and absolution because Viri was the cause of the suffering detailed in the first part of the quote.

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« Reply #97 on: June 03, 2013, 11:36:20 am »
Heh, similar line to my thoughts here, Locke.

Was thinking that by digging deep (kneeling in the deep caverns is holy according to Cleric) and creating a powerful topoi they displaced a piece of the outside that fell into a galaxy far away, a long time ago (remember that time flows differently in the outside).  Consequently the Inchoroi arrived to complete the task of inverting the heavens and the ground and thus seal the outside in.

Quote from: Madness
What was the point of Cleric's third name? Incariol was the name he took as an Erratic Identity and Cleric is the name men gave him?

It might just be confirmation bias, but I felt like they were discernably different characters on my reread.  He doesn't choose different names - they are different people.  NG was the last king of nonmen, Incariol is an erratic and Cleric is the Skin-eater's pet quya.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

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« Reply #98 on: June 03, 2013, 04:21:53 pm »
Neat thoughts.

I really enjoyed originally participating in that thread and rereading parts of it in porting it, Curethan. Where have all the Nonmen (other posters) gone?

locke

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« Reply #99 on: June 04, 2013, 11:24:50 pm »
I feel like the holy water is threatening to drown this thread (I couldn't find it :p)

Wilshire

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« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2013, 02:02:24 am »
How do we know that there are more than the one screw at Cil'?
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« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2013, 12:47:13 pm »
How do we know that there are more than the one screw at Cil'?

You mean, how do we know there is such a staircase in the Mansions of Viri?

I feel like the holy water is threatening to drown this thread (I couldn't find it :p)

Lol, the Deluge has ceased.

I went back to reread your earlier post to look for what Wilshire commented on (unless it's in the earlier thread) - small nitpick: the Halaroi are the peoples of the Four Tribes. Emwama is the term used to otherwise denote the peoples of the generationally enslaved human populations. The Halaroi are never enslaved by the Nonmen.

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Wilshire

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« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2013, 02:46:51 pm »
Well it seemed that Locke was implying at least 2 other screws. How do we know of either? The pit that Titirga fell into was not a screw at all. It was a standard mansion, and all the floors happened to collapse one on top the other.
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locke

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« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2013, 06:55:35 pm »
I was totally making an assumption that all mansions would have screws, particularly since Earwa Jesus ascended to heaven from atop a mansion, and Titirga was 'trapped' via standing on top of an abyss that is seemingly equivalent to TGMS

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« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2013, 03:25:40 pm »
Its plenty possible that there are other Screws, but Titirga didn't fall into one. He crashed through floor after collapsing floor. If it was just ground a long way below him, he would have been able to find the echo and be alright. But he kept falling because the ground kept dropping, and before he could get his barings, the rest of the mountain was pulled in on him.


Anyways, what about half-inchoroi? Either half nonman or half man? Or some Dilute amount of Inchi 'blood'.
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