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Messages - SmilerLoki

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46
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: May 16, 2020, 01:45:12 pm »
Quote from: Cyx on May 16, 2020, 07:16:35 am
He was alive, and to our knowledge the Gods/the Hundred have no agency.
What do you mean? This confuses me. To our knowledge, the Gods have plenty of agency, as expressed by both Ajokli and Yatwer, and also possibly Gilgaol.

Quote from: Cyx on May 16, 2020, 07:16:35 am
How could that which has no intellect produce speech?
This is also a part that I simply don't get. The Gods are portrayed as possessing intellect. Sure, it's a different type of intellect considering its atemporal nature, but intellect nonetheless.

Additionally, at least the Aurang thing is quite easy to believe. To use a Synthese he needed his real body, which was exactly what was destroyed by Kellhus. And what Shae does to remain alive is a double-edged sword. Part of his soul is essentially already suffering eternally in hell. Achamian explains it at some point, I think in the Great Ordeal, but I'm not certain.

47
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: May 16, 2020, 02:24:57 am »
Quote from: H on May 15, 2020, 04:55:15 pm
Well, I mean in the context of what influences what though, not in the sense of Ajokli fully manifesting or the like.
Ah, you meant in a more general sense. That's much more likely, yes.

Though some things can still be viewed as much more consistent with just Kellhus, since his modus operandi as seen in all the books combined corroborates them.

48
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: May 15, 2020, 04:10:48 pm »
Quote from: H on May 15, 2020, 02:11:04 pm
Again, we can play with numbers forever though, but there is no quantitative procedure here.  Honestly, there isn't even a qualitative one either.  We simply have to consider a sort of mediated case, sort of, a 2-in-1 where one can never know the exactly nature of which is in what part which (because they just are one thing, not separates mixes).
I would say this is going too far. Not everywhere in the world is a massively powerful topos.

49
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: May 15, 2020, 01:23:22 pm »
Quote from: Madness on May 14, 2020, 05:16:11 pm
Most, if not all, of those journeys are Ajokli-mediated, though, right? Even in Kellhus' (!!) ignorance.
Might go either way here, the books don't go into enough detail to be in any way certain.

50
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: May 14, 2020, 11:51:51 am »
Other ensouled beings looked into the Inverse Fire and their experience was very similar to that of the Inchoroi. In fact, Kellhus was the only different one in this regard.

51
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers} Apocalypse, Armageddon, Eucalyptus, and Word Choice
« on: February 17, 2020, 08:22:09 am »
Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2020, 06:45:57 pm
Plus he's mentioned to me since "revealing" The No-God title that he didn't want readers going through the preceding novels expecting Kellhus' to become the No-God (given that the third series title breaks the convention of series titles).
As the saying goes, two is just a coincidence!

52
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers} Apocalypse, Armageddon, Eucalyptus, and Word Choice
« on: February 14, 2020, 01:38:21 am »
Thank you, Madness! Now, let's blame Overlook.

It is interesting, though, why did Bakker consider "The No-God" to be a spoiler, then?

53
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers} Apocalypse, Armageddon, Eucalyptus, and Word Choice
« on: February 13, 2020, 12:13:48 pm »
Quote from: Nichamian on February 13, 2020, 12:05:01 pm
I don’t recall it coming up until TAE, I think the WHCB sections refer to the ‘First Apocalypse’, which heavily implies an as yet unmentioned Second. Akka also declares it to the Ordeal as they retreat, ‘the Second Apocalypse is upon us’ or some such. Its late on, but Bakker does mention it in text.
We were talking about the title of the series as a whole, though, not about the words "The Second Apocalypse" being present in the prose.

54
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers} Apocalypse, Armageddon, Eucalyptus, and Word Choice
« on: February 12, 2020, 11:06:26 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire on February 12, 2020, 01:16:24 pm
You said two things, one was that its not in the books, and two was that Bakker never said it. He's clearly been saying it for 15 years is all that I was pointing out.
That might simply be because he was using an established fan name (still not sure it was exactly him, and not the editors of his interviews), my point was. Which means there can be no inherent meaning in it, just convenience.

And yeah, the Rape of Omindalea debacle is another thing that I find severely odd. Oh well, those are some questions to ask Bakker if I ever get the chance.

55
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers} Apocalypse, Armageddon, Eucalyptus, and Word Choice
« on: February 11, 2020, 10:09:40 pm »
It still looks very fuzzy to me. Bakker's new site (it's like a year or two old now?) just uses the already extremely well-established name, while the interviews are edited in such a way as to be clear to the reader and do not necessarily reflect Bakker's own words as they were said. My biggest problem is the books themselves never featuring the name. Granted, it might be Overlook doing its magic again, but, nonetheless, it is done.

56
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers} Apocalypse, Armageddon, Eucalyptus, and Word Choice
« on: February 10, 2020, 10:43:30 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire on February 10, 2020, 01:35:10 pm
No. Its the name of the series as a whole, not a fan name. The series names are the original names of the books, which each became multiple. The Second Apocalypse was always the name.
I've literally never seen it referenced anywhere in the books (like, the covers or summaries, or any sort of technical info) or by Bakker himself.

To be fair, I always found that strange, since "The Second Apocalypse" is just such a fitting name. At the same time, I would venture that it's even more of a spoiler than "The No-God", and Bakker refused to reveal the latter for years.

57
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers} Apocalypse, Armageddon, Eucalyptus, and Word Choice
« on: February 09, 2020, 10:46:47 pm »
It's important to note that "The Second Apocalypse" isn't the official name of the series, it's a fan name. It just caught on so well that everyone is using it.

As for the eucalyptus theory, it certainly is an interesting etymological observation.

Quote from: The P on February 08, 2020, 10:40:52 pm
but eucalyptus, I'm pretty sure, is only native to Australia (maybe also New Zealand and some islands around)
Most of the species, yes, but not all of them:
Quote
There are more than 700 species of eucalyptus and most are native to Australia; a very small number are found in adjacent areas of New Guinea and Indonesia. One species, Eucalyptus deglupta, ranges as far north as the Philippines. Of the 15 species found outside Australia, just nine are exclusively non-Australian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus#Distribution

58
Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings
« on: January 31, 2020, 06:31:41 pm »
Welcome!

59
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: January 31, 2020, 06:29:45 pm »
It was always unclear to me what to make of the Progenitors. They might have devolved into what we now know as the Inchoroi, becoming slaves to their own technology. They might have created an advanced weapon in the form of the Ark and sent it on its Crusade, while they themselves remained on their home world, awaiting the results. Or the Progenitors have died off long ago, while their creations waged war against all life. Or any number of other possibilities, including the Progenitors uploading themselves into the Ark.

60
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: January 31, 2020, 01:10:37 pm »
Here's RSB's quote on the matter:
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2278.msg36429#msg36429

The scene itself is in TUC, in the only Ciphrang POV in the book. I'll add the quote in a bit.

Here it is:
Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult", Chapter 15, Golgoterrath
Vile angel.
Its triumphant screech brings down a haze of dust and flaked mortar.
Kakaliol, Reaper-of-Heroes, dandles the thing in its fiery talons. Lolling limbs, head hanging as if from a stocking. Soft skin blistered or abraded or shorn away, a bladder for gelatinous innards and absurd quantities of blood, like an unwrung rag.
But where? Where is the soul?

By the way, I wonder if the boat we all might've missed is the Ark itself (a literal boat, do you see what RSB did there?). It was an advanced AI once upon a time, it might still be only mostly dead.

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