Earwa > The No-God

Achamian as the most powerful sorcerer left alive in the Three Seas.

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MSJ:
Well, we know from the Sagas the there was only stillbirths during the rise of the No-God. Now, we have to take Bakkers comments regarding this subject. That when the Inchies have the Nonmen the inoculation, they discovered the side effect of the womb-plague on accident. That in turn they used it as a side effect of the No GOd. So, it might not be the shutting of souls from TNG rise the creates the stillbirth, but What they learned from the inoculation. Just throwi my that out there.

H:

--- Quote from: MSJ on October 03, 2017, 04:48:49 pm ---Well, we know from the Sagas the there was only stillbirths during the rise of the No-God. Now, we have to take Bakkers comments regarding this subject. That when the Inchies have the Nonmen the inoculation, they discovered the side effect of the womb-plague on accident. That in turn they used it as a side effect of the No GOd. So, it might not be the shutting of souls from TNG rise the creates the stillbirth, but What they learned from the inoculation. Just throwi my that out there.
--- End quote ---

Well, partially, yeah, the Womb-Plague was a happy accident, in the sense that they didn't know in developing the Inoculation that it would sterilize the population.  What they realized though was that this partially fulfilled a role the No-God would play.  So, while I had read Bakker's comment differently at first, the Womb-Plague is totally independent of the No-God, really, just a way to crudely approximate it's effect.

TLEILAXU:

--- Quote from: H on October 03, 2017, 04:29:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: tleilaxu on October 03, 2017, 04:22:26 pm ---But you don't need souls anymore after the world of shut. They're a part of Eärwan metaphysics. After the Outside has been shut you arrive in a world like our world.
--- End quote ---

Plausible, but we don't know what happens once the world is closed.

Sure, souls aren't needed, but the birth of souled being might be contingent upon the Cycle of Souls.  So, the No-God stopping the Cycle could be why there were no births during it's presence.  Once the world is shut, we don't know, but if the end result is like the means, it could be that no souled beings will ever be born alive.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Sausuna on October 03, 2017, 04:46:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: tleilaxu on October 03, 2017, 04:22:26 pm ---But you don't need souls anymore after the world of shut. They're a part of Eärwan metaphysics. After the Outside has been shut you arrive in a world like our world.

--- End quote ---
As H says, that's possible. But it seems unlikely to me.

Can living beings exist without souls? Sure, we have skin-spies and scranc, for instance. Can men be born without souls? I've seen no evidence of that so far. Seemingly all men have been born with souls and can even live without a proper body (the Amoilas, Shae's strange contraption, somewhat of Malowebi in the Decapitant, and so on). But assuming sealing the world breaks the cycle of souls, it would make more sense to me that men simply cannot make more men, not that birth would continue in a new way. Especially given the effect of the No-God.

--- End quote ---
Keep in mind that Eärwan metaphysics are strange and arbitrary and dependent on Divine wills. Breaking the cycle of souls -> no more humans can be born because humans are ensouled beings in the World, but after the Outside is shut, and the Gods cease to exist (in a sense, as they have never existed in the first place), there's no such thing as a soul anymore.
It also doesn't make sense from a story-telling perspective since the World being shut is supposed to be analogous to our own crash-space.

H:

--- Quote from: tleilaxu on October 03, 2017, 05:01:50 pm ---Keep in mind that Eärwan metaphysics are strange and arbitrary and dependent on Divine wills. Breaking the cycle of souls -> no more humans can be born because humans are ensouled beings in the World, but after the Outside is shut, and the Gods cease to exist (in a sense, as they have never existed in the first place), there's no such thing as a soul anymore.
It also doesn't make sense from a story-telling perspective since the World being shut is supposed to be analogous to our own crash-space.
--- End quote ---

That could be true, or that the allegory ends with our species ending, because meaningful beings have no place in a meaningless world.

TLEILAXU:

--- Quote from: H on October 03, 2017, 05:05:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: tleilaxu on October 03, 2017, 05:01:50 pm ---Keep in mind that Eärwan metaphysics are strange and arbitrary and dependent on Divine wills. Breaking the cycle of souls -> no more humans can be born because humans are ensouled beings in the World, but after the Outside is shut, and the Gods cease to exist (in a sense, as they have never existed in the first place), there's no such thing as a soul anymore.
It also doesn't make sense from a story-telling perspective since the World being shut is supposed to be analogous to our own crash-space.
--- End quote ---

That could be true, or that the allegory ends with our species ending, because meaningful beings have no place in a meaningless world.

--- End quote ---
Unless you are willing/capable of reaching for the Absolute.

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