Miscellaneous Chatter > Literature

The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August, by Claire North. *SPOILERS*

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MSJ:
So, I have finished the book and wanted to discuss with anyone who has read this. Such a great book.

What really kept me engaged the whole time was the premise. Which is, imho, a play on morality, a "what if", if you will. If you could live your life over and over, and remember this previous lives, what would you do? And North tackles this subject very well. Would you change thing to benefit yourself? Would you stay in the monotony of your everyday life and not effect catastrophic events? Or would you?

Harry doesn't mess with any of these events such as WWII, Cold War, Vietnam War or any other of the huge events of the 20th century. Well, to an extent any way. And, what I loved was that these events happened over and over again. He does dabble a little here and there, but the action starts when his close friend, or enemy, Vince/Vitali does begin to. Vince wants to know what created the world, and all that is in it. And, believes he can by creating a Quantum Mirror, to look at life on a microscopic(?) level. He does this by slight of hand, introducing tech from the 80's and 90's well before the 60's. And, this makes the "end of the world" come sooner and sooner.

A whole lot more to talk about, but would live to hear the opinion of others first. I'm looking at you ThoughtsofThelli!

ThoughtsOfThelli:

--- Quote from: MSJ on August 06, 2018, 10:41:26 pm ---So, I have finished the book and wanted to discuss with anyone who has read this. Such a great book.

What really kept me engaged the whole time was the premise. Which is, imho, a play on morality, a "what if", if you will. If you could live your life over and over, and remember this previous lives, what would you do? And North tackles this subject very well. Would you change thing to benefit yourself? Would you stay in the monotony of your everyday life and not effect catastrophic events? Or would you?

Harry doesn't mess with any of these events such as WWII, Cold War, Vietnam War or any other of the huge events of the 20th century. Well, to an extent any way. And, what I loved was that these events happened over and over again. He does dabble a little here and there, but the action starts when his close friend, or enemy, Vince/Vitali does begin to. Vince wants to know what created the world, and all that is in it. And, believes he can by creating a Quantum Mirror, to look at life on a microscopic(?) level. He does this by slight of hand, introducing tech from the 80's and 90's well before the 60's. And, this makes the "end of the world" come sooner and sooner.
--- End quote ---

I might need to reread before going deeper into the question of morality/what if, because there were a few events in there I'm sure I have forgotten by now (I definitely don't have Harry or Vincent's kind of memory ;)).
I do wonder if the predicted end of the world was as inevitable as the characters thought. Could it have been avoided if the execution of Vincent's quantum mirror had gone even a little differently? (not talking about the sabotage, but the mirror itself) We'll never know - and we're not supposed to - but it's something to ponder on (again, might be forgetting some details).



--- Quote from: MSJ on August 06, 2018, 10:41:26 pm ---A whole lot more to talk about, but would live to hear the opinion of others first. I'm looking at you ThoughtsofThelli!

--- End quote ---

Some disjointed ideas for now (because it's almost 1 AM here, might be more coherent later in the day):
-I remember people at westeros.org discussing this book (looked through that thread months ago) brought up the question of why the same "linear" people existed in every timeline if the kalachakras changed history (even if very minutely) during pretty much every life after their first. I think that it may be because every single kalachakra's birth and circumstances thereof becomes a "fixed" point in time (though not completely immutable, because they can be erased from existence...), and so their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. all have to exist, have met at the appropriate times, and so on for them to be able to exist in turn.
-For that matter, are kalachakras themselves sterile? I think we're led to assume they are - Harry mentions a couple of times that he never had children with any of his wives, and if I remember correctly there are others that are mentioned as not having any children as well in passing.
-Am I the only one that thinks that Vincent might have eventually suspected the Forgettings weren't working on Harry and actually gave him false information at the end? Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I don't think it's impossible either...

MSJ:

--- Quote from:  ThoughtsofThelli ----Am I the only one that thinks that Vincent might have eventually suspected the Forgettings weren't working on Harry and actually gave him false information at the end? Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I don't think it's impossible either...
--- End quote ---

I don't think Vince knew that the Forgetting didn't work on Harry. He might have had some reservations about it, maybe. But, I believe the reason for him wanting to do it again and again, was to keep Harry from "learning" about his self. That was just my take on it, but you've got me thinking with your thoughts.


--- Quote ----For that matter, are kalachakras themselves sterile? I think we're led to assume they are - Harry mentions a couple of times that he never had children with any of his wives, and if I remember correctly there are others that are mentioned as not having any children as well in passing.
--- End quote ---

Yes I believe they were all sterile. And, it was a question on my mind during the whole book. I think it's quite clear when we meet Akinleye. Before her Forgetting she has tons of sex, drugs and rock n roll. Ends up with AIDS. So, all that sex unprotected and no babies. While it's possible she was on birth control, I believe it was just a clue that they are all sterile.

MSJ:

--- Quote ---remember people at westeros.org discussing this book (looked through that thread months ago) brought up the question of why the same "linear" people existed in every timeline if the kalachakras changed history (even if very minutely) during pretty much every life after their first. I think that it may be because every single kalachakra's birth and circumstances thereof becomes a "fixed" point in time (though not completely immutable, because they can be erased from existence...), and so their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. all have to exist, have met at the appropriate times, and so on for them to be able to exist in turn.
--- End quote ---

This is a great thought. One thing I'd like to add. Remember, there are kalachakra's in all previous generations also. And, all of them are affecting history timelines also. So, the same linear people showing up again and again is something to think on.

ThoughtsOfThelli:

--- Quote from: MSJ on August 07, 2018, 12:30:23 am ---I don't think Vince knew that the Forgetting didn't work on Harry. He might have had some reservations about it, maybe. But, I believe the reason for him wanting to do it again and again, was to keep Harry from "learning" about his self. That was just my take on it, but you've got me thinking with your thoughts.
--- End quote ---

I didn't say he knew for sure either, and yes, I do know he did it multiple times (though we know those were unsuccessful) to keep Harry from trying to stop his plans while still having his valuable help with the whole project. My previous comment was a bit unclear, but what I meant was: after the sabotage and they were both left dying of radiation poisoning, Vincent might have started to have some suspicions. He wouldn't know for sure, of course, but what I thought was that even a slight suspicion might be enough to get him to pretend to be honest with Harry and give him plausible-sounding information. After all, Harry wouldn't be 100% sure the information was true until he went in search of Vincent's parents during his next life. Again, this might just be me being overly pessimistic/paranoid, but I feel like the likelihood of this happening is not zero...



--- Quote from: MSJ on August 07, 2018, 12:30:23 am ---Yes I believe they were all sterile. And, it was a question on my mind during the whole book. I think it's quite clear when we meet Akinleye. Before her Forgetting she has tons of sex, drugs and rock n roll. Ends up with AIDS. So, all that sex unprotected and no babies. While it's possible she was on birth control, I believe it was just a clue that they are all sterile.

--- End quote ---

Same thing with me on my first read, I started noticing those bits and pieces and eventually realized they must be sterile. Good point on Akinleye. I think she was also one of the others I was remembering - wasn't she married in one of her other lives and mentioned she had never been able to have children with her husband? Of course, someone could make the point that we don't know for sure all kalachakras are sterile. Maybe only Harry and Akinleye are, maybe most of them are sterile and a few are not, who knows. But I feel that all of them being sterile is the case as well. None of the others seem to ever be mentioned as having children in any of their lives, and you'd think that statistically speaking, we'd have seen it happen at least once or twice.

And I might be wrong, but do any of them have any (half-)siblings? They all seem to be only children in addition to (most likely) being sterile. Harry's father never seems to have had any children with his wife in any of Harry's lives. Akinleye was specifically mentioned as being an only child if I remember correctly, same for Vincent.



--- Quote from: MSJ on August 07, 2018, 12:36:03 am ---This is a great thought. One thing I'd like to add. Remember, there are kalachakra's in all previous generations also. And, all of them are affecting history timelines also. So, the same linear people showing up again and again is something to think on.
--- End quote ---

Yes, I know, my theory has every single direct ancestor of any kalachakra being fixed in time and so being around for all of their lives. That includes ancestors living centuries, millennia, etc. ago.
I did find a hole in my own theory when rereading some of the earlier chapters last night, though. Jenny was married to Harry during his third life and the two had no children (and presumably she didn't have any children from a prior or later relationship), but when Harry meets her in a different life, she is married to someone else (not Vincent, this was before that) and has several children. That doesn't work if she was always supposed to be the ancestress of a kalachakra living at some point in the future, but I don't know if it completely disproves it either... Maybe some linears are around because of something similar to my theory (there has to be something to the fact of being born at the same exact time under the same exact circumstances despite having so many other kalachakras changing history before that) and others because of unknown reasons?

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