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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] TUC Errata
« on: July 14, 2017, 05:18:24 pm »
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77
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Survivors
« on: July 14, 2017, 02:10:43 pm »
But haven't we learned the the Inchoroi *are* a weapon race? Like, I got the impression they are a marginally smarter breed of Sranc from the conversation between the Dunyain.
I don't think there is any direct/control once the No-God is active. Like, it destroyed the Great Ordeal in an hour or so. What would an Inchoroi add? It has perfect control of every Sranc, to the point where it is micromanaging them passing chorae around.
I don't think there is any direct/control once the No-God is active. Like, it destroyed the Great Ordeal in an hour or so. What would an Inchoroi add? It has perfect control of every Sranc, to the point where it is micromanaging them passing chorae around.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Survivors
« on: July 14, 2017, 01:53:07 pm »
Agree with ThoughtsOfThelli on those.
I go back and forth on Aurang. On the one hand, the author goes out of the way so that he doesn't die on screen. On the other, the Inchoroi would be possessed by the No-God at this point, right? So what would the narrative importance of one more wingless body even be?
I go back and forth on Aurang. On the one hand, the author goes out of the way so that he doesn't die on screen. On the other, the Inchoroi would be possessed by the No-God at this point, right? So what would the narrative importance of one more wingless body even be?
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]The Incû-Holoinas
« on: July 14, 2017, 01:51:16 pm »
I tend the model the Progenitors as basically post Singularity types. They probably *were* the Ark. Like, with their technology they can probably swap their flesh forms around like changing a hat. The truest version of them would be the pattern in the computer banks.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] After this...
« on: July 14, 2017, 01:49:13 pm »
You think Mimara's kid and the Crab-Hand will be adults in the next series, or not so much?
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Timeline question
« on: July 13, 2017, 04:10:23 pm »
I think Kellhus even mentions that to the Mutilated. He's like "Once they knew that we existed it was only a matter of time until they found it", or something similar.
Ishual's only protection was that you can't raise walls vs what you've forgotten.
Ishual's only protection was that you can't raise walls vs what you've forgotten.
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The Unholy Consult / [TUC Spoilers] Timeline question
« on: July 13, 2017, 02:29:35 pm »
Just to make sure I have this right...
The Consult was subverted by the Dunyain between the series, right? Sometime after TTT, before TGO? Just want to make sure there is no chance that Moengus the elder heard about them from the skin spies he interrogated.
The Consult was subverted by the Dunyain between the series, right? Sometime after TTT, before TGO? Just want to make sure there is no chance that Moengus the elder heard about them from the skin spies he interrogated.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Survivors
« on: July 13, 2017, 03:12:45 am »
I think Kayutas also says something like "anyone can see you are about to die" when he gives her the Cindersword.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Sorweel
« on: July 13, 2017, 03:12:07 am »
I definitely think that Psatma and Sorweel went to Yatwer's personal zone. I just tend to doubt that that zone is anything like the paradise they were hoping for. Cue the lines about the sighs of the sinners and the screams of the damned being indistinguishable if you like, or Psatma's admission that Yatwer was a demon.
It may be better than the Hells, or it may not. One big Ciphrang vs. feasting thousands.
It may be better than the Hells, or it may not. One big Ciphrang vs. feasting thousands.
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The Unholy Consult / [TUC Spoilers] Mimara and Kelmomas
« on: July 12, 2017, 11:07:24 pm »
I was just rereading the part where Mimara catches up with the Great Ordeal, and is brought in to see Esmenet. Kelmomas is standing there, and there is a bit where Mimara doesn't see him, despite him being right in front of her. After a bit she blinks and catches sight of him.
I think that the Judging Eye is also unable to see Kelmomas.
[EDIT Madness: Rearranged Subject]
I think that the Judging Eye is also unable to see Kelmomas.
[EDIT Madness: Rearranged Subject]
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Thoughts about the overall story, ending etc
« on: July 12, 2017, 04:23:24 pm »
I'll take a stab at some of these:
1: Skin spy protecting Mimara:
I think this gets more thought than it needs. Like, Aurang gets called out to the middle of nowhere by a skin spy. I think he just makes a snap judgement that whatever they are up to can't be bad for Team Consult, but maybe if Akka finds out about the Dunyain and shares the info this could hurt the Ordeal's morale. (worth noting, from Consult POV all prophecies are ultimately 'false', since the No-God will rewrite destiny when activated.)
2: Ordeal in general:
Once again, I think the surface level is the only one we need to worry about. They are there to destroy the Consult's minions, keep Kellhus from having to fight Erratics and Wracu while he unleashes Ajokli on the leadership.
3: Ordeal's rape, eat each other and such:
Again, I don't want to read deep here. They were going mad with Sranc, the atrocities were the only way to keep them heading the right direction, betraying Proyas afterwards was useful for fixing their morale.
4: Kellhus' plan
Pretty much what we see: He intends to destroy the Consult, thus aborting the No-God and saving mankind. He means to use his army to defeat theirs, and Ajokli to destroy their leadership, having reasoned that the Golden Room will be an uber Topos.
1: Skin spy protecting Mimara:
I think this gets more thought than it needs. Like, Aurang gets called out to the middle of nowhere by a skin spy. I think he just makes a snap judgement that whatever they are up to can't be bad for Team Consult, but maybe if Akka finds out about the Dunyain and shares the info this could hurt the Ordeal's morale. (worth noting, from Consult POV all prophecies are ultimately 'false', since the No-God will rewrite destiny when activated.)
2: Ordeal in general:
Once again, I think the surface level is the only one we need to worry about. They are there to destroy the Consult's minions, keep Kellhus from having to fight Erratics and Wracu while he unleashes Ajokli on the leadership.
3: Ordeal's rape, eat each other and such:
Again, I don't want to read deep here. They were going mad with Sranc, the atrocities were the only way to keep them heading the right direction, betraying Proyas afterwards was useful for fixing their morale.
4: Kellhus' plan
Pretty much what we see: He intends to destroy the Consult, thus aborting the No-God and saving mankind. He means to use his army to defeat theirs, and Ajokli to destroy their leadership, having reasoned that the Golden Room will be an uber Topos.
87
The Unholy Consult / Re: After this...[TUC SPOILERS]
« on: July 12, 2017, 04:06:36 pm »
"That sounds like more of an excuse than anything else."
I don't know what to say about this. Like, what excuse? When the author make it? What would be the truth that he was trying to excuse?
I don't know what to say about this. Like, what excuse? When the author make it? What would be the truth that he was trying to excuse?
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Thoughts about the overall story, ending etc
« on: July 12, 2017, 01:58:22 pm »Disappointed in TUC mostly because it feels a bit too head-up-its-own-ass w.r.t the writing style and reveals.
Sometimes you just want it spelled out for you, rather than hidden in allusions, epithets and metaphors. It took me quite a bit to work out who the hell the blind singer was supposed to be, and even now I'm not entirely clear what's going on in those passages, for example.
I expected more fleshing out of what the No-God is rather than yet more questions.
I think the Blind Singer was Iyokus, right, and the No-God is Kelmomas?
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Thoughts about the overall story, ending etc
« on: July 12, 2017, 01:21:56 pm »
A random question I've often asked of these books is whether ANYONE goes to paradise.
There is that one quotation about the sighs of the saints and the shrieks of the sinners sounding exactly the same...is Psatma experiencing anything different from what Akka has to look forward to? Are there actually any Heavens, or just endless Hells?
There is that one quotation about the sighs of the saints and the shrieks of the sinners sounding exactly the same...is Psatma experiencing anything different from what Akka has to look forward to? Are there actually any Heavens, or just endless Hells?
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The Unholy Consult / Re: After this...[TUC SPOILERS]
« on: July 12, 2017, 01:19:44 pm »
@Cuttlefish:
I don't...uh, share your idea of how *meaning* works. It's like saying that Moria has no meaning, because the party gets through it. Why not just have Gandalf wander away? It all is leading up to a plan that Frodo abandons anyway!
Like, WLW is the title character of a book. He kills Maithanet. His existence lets the reader get the POV of a destined character, foreshadows Sorweel's transformation, etc. Definitely a big deal. But I can use the same logic you use on a bunch of other arcs to argue that he doesn't 'matter' either.
After all, everything he did was in a city that got hit with an earthquake. Womp womp.
Captain doesn't matter, because Galian killed him. Galian doesn't matter, because Mimara killed him. Mimara doesn't matter because she didn't, I guess, kill Kellhus?
The point I'm trying to make is that the way you use whether or not characters 'dead end/serve any purpose' feels super reductive. Like, does Proyas 'matter'? On the one hand, obviously yes. His loss of faith, struggles, victimization, betrayal, rescue, execution...are given dozens of pages. On the other, lol nope! His life's work was delivering an army that was defeated.
I don't...uh, share your idea of how *meaning* works. It's like saying that Moria has no meaning, because the party gets through it. Why not just have Gandalf wander away? It all is leading up to a plan that Frodo abandons anyway!
Like, WLW is the title character of a book. He kills Maithanet. His existence lets the reader get the POV of a destined character, foreshadows Sorweel's transformation, etc. Definitely a big deal. But I can use the same logic you use on a bunch of other arcs to argue that he doesn't 'matter' either.
After all, everything he did was in a city that got hit with an earthquake. Womp womp.
Captain doesn't matter, because Galian killed him. Galian doesn't matter, because Mimara killed him. Mimara doesn't matter because she didn't, I guess, kill Kellhus?
The point I'm trying to make is that the way you use whether or not characters 'dead end/serve any purpose' feels super reductive. Like, does Proyas 'matter'? On the one hand, obviously yes. His loss of faith, struggles, victimization, betrayal, rescue, execution...are given dozens of pages. On the other, lol nope! His life's work was delivering an army that was defeated.
