The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Unholy Consult => Topic started by: Kellais on July 30, 2017, 03:51:51 pm

Title: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Kellais on July 30, 2017, 03:51:51 pm
Finished TUC today.

I will try to write down my thoughts later (and after browsing the TUC subforum, i see that i am at least not alone in being...underwhelmed) although i'm still not sure if i want to post it here. Not sure if a Bakker fan forum is the right place  ;)

Now, to the thread at hand. Right after reading the last sentence of the book my mind was instantly going "Ok...what now?!" . Will we see the third series? Or is this it for Earwa?
If we will see the series that shall not be named, what will it tell? Will it continue immediately after the end of TUC? Or will we get another years long jump into the future?

There surely are some stories to tell, obviously. I mean 2nd Apocalypse, yo! So i guess there is no shortage of stuff to write about.
I do wonder though...is it a good idea? I really think it is worth pondering if it isn't better to just....leave it there, so to speak.

Not much thought, i know. Just lots of (probably uninteresting) questions  ;D

Maybe i will come back later with more actual thought (and/or answers to my own questions).

But i had to get that out of my head...and where better to put it then here?!!

Oh and...bring the Quorum back, damn it!!!!  :P :P ;D ;)
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Spooky on July 30, 2017, 04:08:33 pm
Quote
Finished TUC today.

I will try to write down my thoughts later (and after browsing the TUC subforum, i see that i am at least not alone in being...underwhelmed) although i'm still not sure if i want to post it here. Not sure if a Bakker fan forum is the right place  ;)

You are not alone oh brother of the slog. Even here there can be found doubt.

Though Denile is a wide river and you, brave soul, have ventured to its very mouth. 

Welcome.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: codebread on July 30, 2017, 10:25:32 pm
You should read the Author Q&A thread. There are answers to a couple of your questions.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: littlegrice on July 31, 2017, 01:01:37 am
So, first time posting, so bare with me and any potential blunders.

Thoughts upon completion:
  1.  Kellhus is far too clever to be gone.  Serwa said once that he too is over-matched (or overpowered...don't remember), but unlike everyone else, he simply takes the battle deeper.  I think this is significant.  "I'm Damned?  Got it.  I'll just master the Daimos, and go to the place everyone seems to fear so much.  Get a lay of the land.  Talk to the Gods directly.  Sure, they can't SEE the No-God, but a few of them seem to understand there is SOMETHING they can't see.  Aha!  Ajokli want to talk deals?  Well, he's a tricky bastard, so he's gonna screw me over in the end, and I'm going up against at least ONE Dunyain, so I have to figure out SOMETHING..."  What did he come up with?  Dunno, really, but when we find out it's gonna be awesome, I think.  I remember reading somewhere that Bakker would ponder over a single conversation involving Kellhus for weeks sometimes, then finally hit on the cleverest thing possible, and cackle to himsilf, "Oh, that clever BASTARD!"  And he has had DECADES to figure out this one.  We will be seeing Kellhus again, is some way, shape or form.  That leads right into
  2.  Cnair becoming, or at least being possessed by the Prince of Hate was pretty sweet, though it will complicate Kellhus' master plan, perhaps even ruin it.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Cnair is the only person thus far in the series to surprise Kellhus, right?  So if Ajokli took him, or he ascended to become Ajokli, there is a confrontation coming that old K-man maybe ain't ready for.

Survivors of the Ordeal
  1.  Achamian, Esmenet, Mimara, and baby.  Achamian, after receiving a mouthful of dead person ash, just hauls ass and doesn't look back.
  2.  Kayutas and Serwa.  Either with Achamian(I don't think so, but possible), the Mandate Grand Master, or (my crazy theory) they hide in Golgotterath while she regains her strength for the Meta-Gnostic.  Hiding where no one could possibly be?  Sounds pretty fuckin Dunyain to me.

Predictions for the No-God
  1.  The Carapace having no Chorae will be the eventual end of the No-God.  Having thousands upon thousands of Chorae inside the Whirlwind is pretty intimidating, but no protection on the Carapace itself is a big mistake.  I get it, though.  Kellhus was supposed to be the No-God, so they had to go, but they need to fix it now.  Or it is a future plot point, which is MY point.  Hehe...see what I did there? ;D
  2.  Mimara's Chorae inversion thing will come up again, maybe as she stalks the halls of Golgotterath itself to cleanse it for good.  That last part is wishful thinking, but the first part is a certainty.  Or maybe she rediscovers the Aporos.  That would be cool.  My original thought was that only the Aporos had any hope of stopping Kellhus when he eventually turned on everyone, but that went a bit pear-shaped.
  3.  Some combination of the survivors of the Ordeal I listed above (maybe all?) will serve as the leaders of what's left of civilization in its undoubtedly pathetic attempt to stave of the Second Apocalypse.  Esmenet has forces mustered in some random city (I don't remember where) which will be wiped out in the second major defeat at the hands of the No-God, forcing them to seek shelter in the unforgiving arms of High Holy Zeum.  But to get there, they're gonna have to trespass on the ground owned by Moenghus and his Scylvendi.  That should be fun.  Moenghus and Serwa are going to have a Coming-to-Kellhus moment.  Probably not gonna be sweet.

Hopes for the No-God.  (as in probably not, but here's hoping!)
  1.  The Nonmen are not done.  They still have a trick or two yet to play.
  2.  Crab hand ends up with Achamian and/or Serwa, and they teach him the Gnosis.  He's Dunyain, but not really.  I mean, he has only the most basic of his training, but all that potential.  A mold-able piece of clay with the ability to still be human (feelings and such), but also capable of the Meta-Gnostic bad-assery that is grandfather wielded.  This is a leftover hope that I had held onto from a rehabilitated Kelmomas, and what he could have been.  Can you imagine a Dunyain with TWO minds, assisting each other in Meta-Gnostic Cants?  Kellhus times 2?  It makes me giggle with terror.
  3.  Meppa assisting the survivors.  Assuming he is still alive, which it seemed like he was, who knows what Kellhus said/did to him, so he would be an ultra wild card.  Finding out more about the Water and why the Consult wanted it wiped out so badly would be awfully nice, too.
  4.  Kellhus' talk with Seswatha in the Thousand Fold Thought FINALLY comes to light.  I want to know what they talked about SOOO BAD, and if that is what lead to the changes in Achamian's Dreams.  And, since I am here, wishing upon the Nail of Heaven, how about we see Seswatha awaken fully within Achamian.  The Skin-spy said Chigra burned bright in him, after all.  Maybe it was Seswatha's plan all along...a break glass in case of Second Apocalypse situation.  He would be both Achamian, but also Seswatha.
  5.  AND, since I mentioned the Nail of Heaven, how about we find out what's up with that thing, huh?!  A piece of the Arc?  An enemy of the Arc, responsible for the Arc plummeting to Earwa?  R Scott Bakker's imperial visage itself, scowling down upon all of Earwa?

And finally, a question:  Anybody care to explain the haloes about Kellhus' hands and head?

Whew!  Thanks in advance for reading and (maybe) answering, and even (POSSIBLY) arguing.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Madness on July 31, 2017, 01:16:55 pm
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, littlegrice :).
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Wilshire on July 31, 2017, 08:02:29 pm
Kellais, there are several 'first impression' threads, which why this one isn't getting much response. I'd suggest a narrower focus, or checking them out :) .

As Spooky notes, this is of course a great place for doubts, and always has been. Nothings happening here if everyone agrees and we all go home. In fact, it wouldn't be here at all were it so simple we all understood and agreed.

littlegrice, welcome to the forum and great initial post, I look forward to reading many more :) .

Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Madness on August 01, 2017, 12:01:55 pm
Kellais, there are several 'first impression' threads, which why this one isn't getting much response. I'd suggest a narrower focus, or checking them out :) .

Yeah, as noted, Wilshire, my bad. Let's say - and I'll update the TUC Spoiler Policy thread in a timely manner (a page and a half of topics later) - that a week from today we can drop the [TUC Spoiler] tags and start making topics with TUC content in General Earwa.

As Spooky notes, this is of course a great place for doubts, and always has been. Nothings happening here if everyone agrees and we all go home. In fact, it wouldn't be here at all were it so simple we all understood and agreed.

Yeah...

It's great :).
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Hiro on August 01, 2017, 12:42:38 pm
Hi littlegrice!

Impressive first post.


Predictions for the No-God
[...]
  3.  Some combination of the survivors of the Ordeal I listed above (maybe all?) will serve as the leaders of what's left of civilization in its undoubtedly pathetic attempt to stave of the Second Apocalypse.  Esmenet has forces mustered in some random city (I don't remember where) which will be wiped out in the second major defeat at the hands of the No-God, forcing them to seek shelter in the unforgiving arms of High Holy Zeum.  But to get there, they're gonna have to trespass on the ground owned by Moenghus and his Scylvendi.  That should be fun.  Moenghus and Serwa are going to have a Coming-to-Kellhus moment.  Probably not gonna be sweet.


I've been thinking about how any army could possibly offer any meaningful resistance against the No-God and his Sranc-horde. RSB mentioned that we have not seen the last of the Nonmen, so there are other powers at play.

Still, I was thinking about geography. To battle the Horde on any field is to invite disaster. As we have seen in TGO and elsewhere in smaller scale, if one is able to divide the Horde in manageable chunks through geography, then it might be possible to fight a running battle. Guerilla warfare, instead of open warfare. This should protect against the Whirlwind as well.

A well-timed Momasian earthquake or flooding would be very helpful as well, so get on it Thousand Temples.

Meanwhile, evacuate all souls that cannot take part in the battle.

All the while, one needs a more permanent solution. The Dunsult themselves, the Ark, the Carapace, they need to be wrecked somehow as well.

Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Wilshire on August 01, 2017, 07:00:20 pm
Hiro, im of the opinion that a desert, a big mountain range, and  a fortress in the only passable region will have to suffice.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: The Sharmat on August 01, 2017, 08:02:30 pm
I just finished this so I want to gloat about being right about Kelmomas/Samarmas being the real Harbinger and Kellhus being a red herring.

Very mixed feelings about this book. I enjoyed it, but there were some anticlimaxes. Some were understandable. I mean, the Consult were clearly meant to be a pathetic anti-climax. Others...though he annoyed me in the beginning, I came to really like Sorweel and his death seems to make his whole arc rather meandering and pointless. Hell, I even liked him and Serwa together. Sadly, that's been the closest thing to a healthy romantic relationship in the entire series. Naturally, it was also among the shortest.

I fear that he's simply killed off so many interesting characters it will be hard to get invested in the next series, the adventures of Meppa, Kellhus' Nameless Grandson, and some kids/cousins/whatever of all the dead characters. It's gonna need some work.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Madness on August 01, 2017, 10:24:25 pm
...

Welcome back, Sharmat :).
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Kellais on August 03, 2017, 05:16:01 pm
Wil & Madness - yes, i guess i should have waited a few more days...the thread with Scott answering so many questions kind of makes my thread here more or less redundant ^^

Also, maybe i should have browsed a bit more, i admit. Although on first glance i didn't see a dedicated thread to musings for details explicitly after TUC.

Anyway... i guess we can close this thread (or not, some interesting points are being discussed that had nothing to do with my relatively light opening post)
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Cynical Cat on August 03, 2017, 05:18:33 pm
I just finished this so I want to gloat about being right about Kelmomas/Samarmas being the real Harbinger and Kellhus being a red herring.

*Fist Bump*  Gloat away, my brother.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Woden on August 03, 2017, 07:25:47 pm
Lol. Kellhus is more a white whale than a red herring. Or a red herring of titanic dimensions, the mother of all red herrings.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: solipsisticurge on August 03, 2017, 08:05:28 pm
I just finished this so I want to gloat about being right about Kelmomas/Samarmas being the real Harbinger and Kellhus being a red herring.

Very mixed feelings about this book. I enjoyed it, but there were some anticlimaxes. Some were understandable. I mean, the Consult were clearly meant to be a pathetic anti-climax. Others...though he annoyed me in the beginning, I came to really like Sorweel and his death seems to make his whole arc rather meandering and pointless. Hell, I even liked him and Serwa together. Sadly, that's been the closest thing to a healthy romantic relationship in the entire series. Naturally, it was also among the shortest.

I fear that he's simply killed off so many interesting characters it will be hard to get invested in the next series, the adventures of Meppa, Kellhus' Nameless Grandson, and some kids/cousins/whatever of all the dead characters. It's gonna need some work.


I fear that he's simply killed off so many interesting characters it will be hard to get invested in the next series, the adventures of Meppa, Kellhus' Nameless Grandson, and some kids/cousins/whatever of all the dead characters. It's gonna need some work.

You are forgetting the doubtless main  character of TNG, the destroyer of the No-God and salvation of mankind, the One Who Comes Before, the Absolute, the God-Among-Us...

...Likaro.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Title: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Woden on August 03, 2017, 08:10:09 pm
Main characters: Likaro (lol), Crabicus, Moe Jr, Meppa, Akka, Mim, Esmi, the no-Kellhus baby and a head on a pole.
And the bad guyz: Ajokli, the mutilated and his pet inchie Aurax and Sam the No-God.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Walter on August 03, 2017, 08:22:27 pm
Dunsult are gonna be super upset when the new No-God shows no interest in closing the world, and immediately starts chasing after Esmenet.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: The Sharmat on August 03, 2017, 08:29:36 pm
Screamed from the voice of a thousand thousand Sranc

MOMMEEEEE
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Woden on August 03, 2017, 08:42:29 pm
Screamed from the voice of a thousand thousand Sranc

MOMMEEEEE

HAHAHAHA.
Excellent.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Baztek on August 03, 2017, 10:19:07 pm
The world saved by a cuddle session
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Likaro on August 04, 2017, 12:37:42 am
That might actually happen.  :P


______________________________

Drusas Achamian stands on the battleplain,  surveying leagues of the churning horizon. The last of mankind's hosts lie utterly scattered and defeated. Despite the valor and might of the legions he had assembled, despite his every effort to be this ages Seswatha, it had still come to this. He had tossed the number sticks and lost. There were no words to describe the horror.

Cyclopean piles of the dead, defiled, burned, hewn to ruins... lay before him., along with all the panoply and wrack of bitter, final war. The last remainders of the fabled Ketyai and Norisirai might, lost. The famed sword-dancers of Zeum, gone. The remaining sorcerous might of Earwa, even mighty Likaro, dead or salted to the pith. The final remnants of the Cunoroi, obliterated and sent screaming to the Hells, after all the obscene ages. The Scylvendi tribes of Moenghus, slain. Even the barbarous and savage hordes of distant Eanna, all had fallen. Death had come swirling down, and slaying with it all hope.

And yet the foe remained.

Sranc without number, beauteous Ghoul faces wrenched in horrific hatred and lust. After everything they had endured it still had come to this. Esmenet, standing by his side, screams to see the mad numbers still remaining after the titanic battle, and clutches the old Wizard's arm in desperation. Mimara is on her knees, retching in despair. How much horror could the soul withstand? How much sin had they endured? How much degradation ? The running battles over the past five years, the butchery, everything that had come before- all of it seemed for naught.

And they could feel it in their hearts...the dread presence to the North.... and getting closer. Even now Akka could the faint outlines of the dread whirlwind forming, swirling.

Agony clutched his heart. They had searched and searched, and the Heron Spear remained lost to the fickle whims of time and the Whore Anagke. There was no chance of victory. Inrau...Proyas...Kellhus...Forgive me.... thought Akka.

The voice hit man and wife and daughter as a hammer.

WHAT AM I?

TELL ME

WHAT DO YOU SEE


The dread whirlwind approaches. The hordes part as before the prow of a ship.

The gibbering thousands of Sranc nearest to the dread carapace fall to their faces, while those beyond howled in ecstasy and masturbated in savage fury.

Akka clutches Esmi's hand and Mimara's in the other. There was no time, nowhere to run. At least he would die with the only women he had ever loved beside him.

The hoary black sarcophagus draws near them. Akka snorts a huge line of Qirri off his Nimil vambrace, closes his eyes, and waits for the end.

MOM?

the dread voice thundered through a thousand thousand Sranc throats

MOMEEEEEEEEE!

Akka turns to find Esmenet on her knees before the Carapace. "Kel? Kel!" she croaks. The whirlwind dies down, and the Carapace floats before them in  silence. Akka watches in horror as Esmenet, weeping, embraces the marmoreal black carapace in her arms... "You...you...were...you are the only one! " she shrieks.

Somewhere Akka hears the sound of a child's muffled cries...

I AM....i am... YOUR LITTLE BOY?

Mimara's judging eye finally opens.

Paradox.

And so did the world and the Outside shatter into a blinding white light.




Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Baztek on August 04, 2017, 01:31:59 am
kek, the heron hug
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Triskele on August 04, 2017, 04:31:06 am
Awesome
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on August 04, 2017, 12:15:51 pm
Bravo, sir. :)

I love the mention of how Likaro went out so heroically. ;)
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Woden on August 04, 2017, 12:21:02 pm
Awesome, Likaro. That would be a fucking perfect end. Hahahahaha.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Hiro on August 04, 2017, 12:45:54 pm
It's raucous alright. Yet, could you, or shouldn't you, inject some ambiguity?
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Madness on August 04, 2017, 02:15:54 pm
Bravo, sir. :)

I love the mention of how Likaro went out so heroically. ;)

Indeed. Brilliant, Likaro. I also loved the nod to your username's character. How Malowebi would rage ;)!
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Likaro on August 04, 2017, 05:23:45 pm
Hehe thanks.

It will be quite funny if something like that comes to pass.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: The Sharmat on August 04, 2017, 10:18:09 pm
Masterful
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: solipsisticurge on August 04, 2017, 10:56:09 pm
Hehe thanks.

It will be quite funny if something like that comes to pass.

Indeed, well done. I am honestly pulling for Likaro to be a major player, and quite heroic figure, in TNG. The irony would be delicious. (Bonus points if, somehow or another, the Malowebi decapitant becomes a crucial part of Likaro's plan to save the world.)
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Triskele on August 05, 2017, 05:09:51 am
Yeah, I think "even mighty Likaro" was my favorite bit.

I sure am curious about where we go from here.  A few of the things I'll be most curious about going forward:

-What's the role for The Most Blessed Fraction, the character that you lot call Crabicus? 

-What's the role for Meppa?  I felt like when Meppa was introduced in WLW it had to portend something huge which, at least for TAE, turned out not to be the case at all.  Does RSB still have something big planned?  Will he remain the last Cishaurim?  One of my bigger disappointments in his role not escalating in the last two books was that I'd love to see the Cishaurim and the Psukhe explored a bit more.

-Given Zeum's presumably much bigger role in the next series will we also get more of a taste of the Iswazi?  I hope see.  I think Bakker's magic system is great, so throwing one more on the pile would be cool.

-How do the Nonmen re-emerge?  Did the Lord of Swans die in this book or can he maybe be one of the principals remaining?  Will we ever hear about Nin'janjin, or was he lost to the ages? 
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Hiro on August 05, 2017, 09:13:57 am
Yeah, I think "even mighty Likaro" was my favorite bit.

I sure am curious about where we go from here.  A few of the things I'll be most curious about going forward:

-What's the role for The Most Blessed Fraction, the character that you lot call Crabicus? 

-What's the role for Meppa?  I felt like when Meppa was introduced in WLW it had to portend something huge which, at least for TAE, turned out not to be the case at all.  Does RSB still have something big planned?  Will he remain the last Cishaurim?  One of my bigger disappointments in his role not escalating in the last two books was that I'd love to see the Cishaurim and the Psukhe explored a bit more.

-Given Zeum's presumably much bigger role in the next series will we also get more of a taste of the Iswazi?  I hope see.  I think Bakker's magic system is great, so throwing one more on the pile would be cool.

-How do the Nonmen re-emerge?  Did the Lord of Swans die in this book or can he maybe be one of the principals remaining?  Will we ever hear about Nin'janjin, or was he lost to the ages?

Per Bakker's AMA responses, nearly all of the above falls in the category RAFO...
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Likaro on August 05, 2017, 05:16:17 pm
My one hope is that the new series are actually novels and that Bakker has more of a plan then he is letting on. If he starts winging it more and more I'm afraid of the results.

Didn't I read that Bakker might do them as shorter Atrocity tales? I don't like that concept because then we are going to get some really weird and confusing and extremely mysterious bits and bites.'

So lets hope Bakker serves the Srance fricassee whole.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Madness on August 06, 2017, 01:24:40 pm
My one hope is that the new series are actually novels and that Bakker has more of a plan then he is letting on. If he starts winging it more and more I'm afraid of the results.

Didn't I read that Bakker might do them as shorter Atrocity tales? I don't like that concept because then we are going to get some really weird and confusing and extremely mysterious bits and bites.'

So lets hope Bakker serves the Srance fricassee whole.

I don't know that I've ever seen that "shorter Atrocity tales" comment. Either in the recent Q&A here or in the AMA, Bakker mentioned envisioning them as a new version of the Sagas.

I probably should dig for it because this is the second time I'm mentioning it but Bakker has mentioned that he's had the last last scene and the last last line drafted for years now.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: solipsisticurge on August 06, 2017, 07:12:23 pm
I'm not sure Baker's shooting entirely blind (especially given Madness's above comment), so much as he's working off a much looser outline. Everything up to TUC was a matter of transferring the ideas, notes and progression to the page in the right artistic fashion; from here on he knows what's going to happen in broad strokes, but specific scenes and reveals are much more scarce.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

EDIT: just recalled his AMA comment on the last full-blooded Dunyain, which speaks to the opposite. Hmm.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: The Sharmat on August 06, 2017, 07:17:53 pm
Given that at some point this was the ending I have to assume that some things that would have been in this series were moved forward to the next one, since I can't see him ending with so little about Seswatha, the Judging Eye, and the No-God unexplained.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Madness on August 07, 2017, 01:43:36 am
Bakker's never done himself any favours with his comments, especially as he's ignorant of the way we've parsed minutia over the years.

But... Bakker's been talking about TNG since TDTCB came out. It's certainly not a haphazard addition to the narrative.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: littlegrice on August 09, 2017, 08:50:24 am
His comment on the last line of the book was referring to the Unholy Consult's end,  not the No-God. 
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Duskweaver on August 09, 2017, 11:17:36 am
Certain entries in the EG imply that humanity, and even something recognisable as civilization, does somehow manage to survive System Resumption. The entry for the Letting, for example, could only have been written after someone who was present at the time got back to the Three Seas and told someone about it. And it seems unlikely that the in-universe compilers of the EG were writing all this stuff down during the Second Apocalypse.
Title: Re: So...where do we go from here...? (Post TUC questions and thoughts)
Post by: Madness on August 11, 2017, 11:54:11 am
His comment on the last line of the book was referring to the Unholy Consult's end,  not the No-God. 

If this was directed at my "last last" comments above, I'll have to go digging for you, littlegrice. I'm very careful about public admission on Bakker's behalf (because I'm just an inordinately involved fan) but I know that Bakker's had the final scene and line of TNG drafted for years. I don't like asking Q&A questions for personal fulfillment as I'd rather spend my answer-bucks on fan service so perhaps I'll ask him about the "last last" line and scene draft tonight.