0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Yeah, thats why I included that quote in the wikiquote project. Such a great scene.
I noticed the Ieva betrayed NC to save her soul. Was she a sorceress? It kind of sounds that way.
I assumed Ieva was a pissed off wife, simply being one of the normal people, who accessing all available information, just supports the Consult because of the inevitable likelihood of their victory.Cheers for diving in, Blackstone .
Quote from: Madness"With them marched the Vokalati, the feared Sun-wailers of Nilnamesh, under the Grandmaster known only as Carindusu, notorious for his insolence in the presence of the Aspect-Emperor and for his rumoured theft of the Mandate Gnosis" (WLW, p85).That is something I've always been curious about. My italics. And yes, they're never mentioned in the PON but neither are lots of things... striptease .Yeah, you can see that becoming a two birds with one stone thang - insolent (possibly a Conphas level sociopath and unmanipulatable/innefficiently manipulatable). Somehow manipulated to go mad during the battle (subtle poisons/hallucinogens employment, even)And bring down the Mandate as well? Well, the Sethwatha homonculous in them makes them kind of fixated/harder to manipulate. Also they remember the past. Without the past, there is less context to have to work within when manipulating.Possibly leaked Gnosis knowledge to Carindusu for the purposes of the dual elimination as well.
"With them marched the Vokalati, the feared Sun-wailers of Nilnamesh, under the Grandmaster known only as Carindusu, notorious for his insolence in the presence of the Aspect-Emperor and for his rumoured theft of the Mandate Gnosis" (WLW, p85).That is something I've always been curious about. My italics. And yes, they're never mentioned in the PON but neither are lots of things... striptease .
+1... Except the hole where the Swayal Sisterhood has to go through the Grasping in order to have the Gnosis. The "deal" that Kellhus manipulated with the Mandate (which we never get to see ), depends on him being the only one who isn't safeguarded by Seswatha Within.
Quote from: MadnessExcept the hole where the Swayal Sisterhood has to go through the Grasping in order to have the Gnosis.Unless the Grasping has a lesser effect on women? One could imagine the Dreams being less viscerally 'real' for the Swayali, the difference in sex acting as a sort of constant reminder that the dreamer isn't really Seswatha.Which would seem to me to be a more plausible reason for Kellhus creating a school of witches than some genuine interest in sexual equality.
Except the hole where the Swayal Sisterhood has to go through the Grasping in order to have the Gnosis.
Thats a good thought but I don't know if that would really have a significant effect as far as control goes. I think a new school would simply be easier to manipulate since they have less history. Or they know less of their history so therefore more darkness for Kell to seize.Reason for making it all female would make a nice neat line for the Mandate to never cross, keeping them out of his divine hair.
I think the all female part is a nod to his notion that exploitative systems might simply hire women not out of equality, but because its more cheap labour. Unless the idea is equal exploitation, in which case it's equality, I guess.Shit! Slipped into some P(olitics)! Summon the dragons! Seal the tear in the world!
Again this woman thing... I swear, it's coming up big. I've said for years that Bakker's been holding onto his "Woman" & "Not Sexist" cards...+1 Gender Dreams, Duskweaver.
It's already been suggested that the Anasurimbor in the Celmomian Prophecy might be Mimara rather than Kellhus, right?
Believe so but +1. I'm not chasing you around the board , I have to get to work. Meld with you all in the future.
Like Moe and Kell have both said, there have always been Anasurimbor in Earwa. Also, the prophesy says that an Anasurimbor will return at the end of the world , and the Seswatha's end will be the end of the world. I think people often forget what is actually said by Celmomas. He said nothing about saving the world or how it will end or why. Just that the end is nigh when the Anasurimbor return, and that is something that has certainly happened. The specific Anasurimbor that is the Harbinger really doesn't matter much.What is far more important, at least in the prophesy, is Seswatha. Something like "the world will not end with me, that burden lies with you" (more of a paraphrase from my memory than a quote really, but thats the gist of the last line I believe). This is probably what led Seswatha to make the Mandate in the first place and make them all go through the Grasping ceremony. Maybe this preserves more than memories? Could but that Seswatha is actually alive in some more meaningful way, as long as his heart and memories remain intact. The end of the Mandate, and no the Sisterhood, would more clearly mean that the world is lost. Also considering that Kellhus never went through said ceremony , it is possible that he did not want to tie his destiny/fate into Seswatha's. Could be some support for theory that Kell is the next no-god or that he wants to end the world in some way or another. If he was preserving the old Grandmaster in some way, then he would be saving the world from ending by simply being alive. That whole 'needing to kill yourself to win' thing probably didn't go over so well with him in the initial phase of his planing.I don't like or agree with that theory, but I suppose it deserves mention.
I feel like founding the Swayali Sisterhood is simply Kellhus's pragmatism at work. He won't leave the Few unyolked, whatever their gender happens to be.Making them a seperate unit rather than a part of an existing school is probably just a case of it being easier to make the sorcerer's accept a new competing body than changes to their own organizations.
+1, Walter. I agree that is likely Kellhus' motivation & the breakdown of distinction...However, the author has intent. By creating the "Nuns," Bakker added another element by which he could explore power relations and the distinction of sexual roles between men and women, neh? Though, of course, I'm hazarding guesses here - Bakker's Intent... truly difficult to apprehend. One Three Pounds is not enough brain to solve TSA .
Quote from: DuskweaverIt's already been suggested that the Anasurimbor in the Celmomian Prophecy might be Mimara rather than Kellhus, right?Didn’t the prophecy say “one of my seed will return”?Mimara is adopted so i cant see how it’s her.
