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Messages - Kosoter

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Why haven't more Few gone to the Consult?
« on: March 05, 2014, 06:11:52 pm »
I always figured the Consult doesn't recruit people because they rely so utterly on secrecy and deceit. They kill and replace people, they don't recruit them. Skinspies live longer, are harder to kill, more trustworthy and so on. They don't need more sorcerers right now, no matter how powerful they are. The only useful sorcerers in the world are the Mandate and they haven't even fought them in centuries or thereabouts.

I think the breeding of Ursranc is very telling. If they're bred to be more stable and controlling sranc that can use more complicated gear and use actual tactics, they're probably bred with humans in some suitably unpleasant way or just genetically altered to be useful as warriors or assistants. There must be some humans working with the Consult that aren't sorcerers and they've got to be fucking something. If they're Few, great, they can be taught some magic but I don't think they actively breed just for that. They rely on constructs and few of them seem magical. They rely on weapon races. They rely on sneaking and people not even realising they exist. Why would they need a crazy big army? Even a sorcerous one? Nobody is going to attack them until they see the Ordeal coming...and even then, it's a bit late to start a breeding program or recruit sorcerers because again, they're all pretty much Team Kellhus. If Kellhus is going to save their souls anyway, why do they need to believe the IF? What if Kellhus has his own IF that he shows to doubters?

I just don't believe the Consult have anything but some Nonmen (who will have plenty of sorcerers), Ursranc, a few human dudes (who are probably not very good at fighting) and a lot of weapon races like sranc, bashrag and wracu. Maybe they can very quickly churn out skinspies that are just designed for fighting but nothing else? They certainly seem content to send them out to die uselessly to convince Kellhus he's keeping good tabs on them. I think the Consult's forces will just be a few very old names of unspeakable power and a lot of chaff. I don't see any need in their recent history (couple of centuries, hell even couple of decades) that suggests they'd ever want/need lots of sorcerers in the first place.

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I'm thinking that the Zeumi Prince is only there all along so he can see that Kellhus was right and that the Consult are not only real but are pretty bad dudes. I definitely think that whatever happens, the Prince will be leading Zeum against the Consult in the coming wars against the Consult after the No-God comes back. It's my pet theory that that's what TWSNBN is going to be if the series doesn't end with rocks falling and everyone dying. I'd be happy with that ending too, really.

When I first read the series, I thought for the longest time that the No-God was simply a bomb and the Consult were just morons that worshipped it as a god like those nutters in one of the Planet of the Apes movies. I thought the whole thing about creating the NG and whatnot and descriptions of his carapace were just creative ways of saying they were researching some kind of bomb and the womb-plague that made everyone infertile was simply some byproduct of it like radiation. Funnily enough, I thought the stuff at the Battleplain was the result of Seswatha accidentally detonating the No-God and releasing magical fallout everywhere. It seems really funny now but that was my first impression all those years ago :P

My personal nerdanel for the end of the series is that Kellhus is not trying to become the NG at all despite what so many people seem to think but the opposite. I've figured souls work kind of like souls do in the Warhammer universe (if you pledge your soul to X god, it becomes part of X god, making it stronger) and that Kellhus is trying to do what the Emperor did and convince loads of people to worship him as a god and dedicate their souls to him. By feeding on those souls, he can gain power in the outside and become a god himself and then enact TTT through the hearts and minds of all people. Everyone will worship him as a god when he dies (probably at the end of the series), with the Zeumi prince going home to spread the good word of the Aspect Emperor's heroic sacrifice for all humanity. Everyone worships him, he gets to not only not be damned but to feast on everyone's soul and blot out all the other gods so only he remains. By pledging their souls to him, sorcerers escape eternal damnation...meaning what he said is kind of true and he is a prophet. A prophet of himself.

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Interlude: Ishual
« on: March 05, 2014, 05:19:22 pm »
If some of the Dunyain are the Few then surely some of them must have figured out it was a topos? I can't imagine being one on top of a topos is fun even if you're not a real sorcerer. If I recall correctly, Akka has a killer trip and sees the Onta for the first time when he's really young. Even a conditioned Dunyain must wonder what the hell that is. If they're all just removed then how could Big Moe and Kellhus become proper monks?

Connected to a Mansion? Maybe. Built on the ruins of one? Maybe. Those are good examples as to why the castle was built there in the first place and how the Dunyain found it. They also explain the Thousand Thousand Halls. But a topos because of either of these or because of the creepy shit Dunyain do? I doubt it. They'd get too weirded out by it, conditioning or not. The Few get bent out of shape by a topos no matter how much they don't want to believe magic exists.

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who destroyed the Dunyain monastery?
« on: March 05, 2014, 04:53:35 pm »
I just can't see Kellhus not finding a use for them. Any use. Even just tools or breeding stock. He clearly has need of things he can bonk successfully enough to make babies. He needs people who can manipulate others for him at a lower level when he's not around. He needs assassins. He needs spies. He needs guards (for important dudes). He needs people that can see skinspies. He needs sorcerers and being the Few seems to be genetic...so some surely must be good candidates. I just can't imagine him being so...unimaginative as to go in and kill everyone and blow everything up. Maybe he took the useful ones and destroyed the rest.

I definitely think he'd have gone back there at some point. It just doesn't make sense for him not to for any of the reasons I listed or more. He needs to make babies above all else and it's pretty hard for him...and there's far more mundane uses for some weaker Dunyain. He just needs to convince them he's totally awesome at the logos and they'd never even think to betray him. There's also a few characters here and there that might be Dunyain and acting out his will as it is.

That leaves me to believe the Consult found it and smashed it so Kellhus couldn't do it first. It wouldn't take much really. No matter how amazing Dunyain are at fighting or bullshitting, they can't really do much against even just a couple of sorcerers without chorae. If they even had any chorae somehow (killing invading sranc?), they'd probably be totally ignorant as to its use. I wouldn't rule out the Consult breaking a few of them and using them for their own games but still, I think they'd just wreck it if they found it. If not them then who? A raving Erratic that just happened to show up?

I think the scroll being opened hints at a very specific person finding it. If it was the Consult, they'd probably either take it with them, rape someone with it or both. Also if the Consult found the scroll, why'd they not let Wutteat out to cause some trouble for the Ordeal? They're gathering up yokes of sranc, why not have a badass zombie dragon? I don't think it could have been them. Why would Big Moe or Kellhus need the map anyway? Surely their memory is good enough to find the way home? If not, there's always magic or tracking skills to figure it out. Who else even knows about the library? Who else even knows about the Dunyain? I thought originally it could have been Cnaiür but I still think he died in the mansion way back when. If he was working with the Consult though...the above points come into play. He's the only person for me that isn't really the Consult but who even knows of the Dunyain. I just can't think of anyone else that makes sense. It could be the case has nothing to do with the destruction of the monastery. At this point I still think it's a random Erratic that felt like being a dick and there's nothing big and meaningful to it at all.

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The Judging Eye / Re: prologue
« on: March 05, 2014, 04:30:41 pm »
My personal nerdanel, as I believe you call it here, is that the traveler's identity is largely irrelevant compared to his purpose.

I always loved my namesake and he's definitely my favourite character. I got to wondering though at some point...just what is Kosoter? The first theory I had was just that he was simply Palatine (I think?) Soter because he was a noble Veteran from the Holy War that definitely was on Team Kellhus. Then I wondered if he was one of Nascenti but they would all have powerful positions in the Ministrate and not be out killing sranc for a living. I've concluded that he was indeed just a fanatical warrior from the Unification Wars that became famous but the blasted and evil things Mimara sees in him with her Judging Eye speaks of something far darker and terrible than anything else. Achamian is clearly going to be pretty damned, certainly moreso than the Skin Eaters, whatever their histories. Surely Kosoter can't just be that much more of a dick than them as far as the gods are concerned? There had to be some other answers.

I think the scene that really did it for me was when he looked at all the fire and horror of Moria 2.0 and everyone else thought they'd come to the outer precincts of Hell. He dismissed it because "if it was Hell, I would remember". At first this simply sounded like some token badass comment but Kosoter doesn't just go around making badass comments. He isn't Cnaiür. Instead he makes a fairly cryptic comment about Hell and it dawned on me later that maybe he is telling the truth...or thereabouts. Maybe Kellhus did indeed make his own Inverse Fire and show it to a bunch of people to utterly condition them to his cause? That was the main reason I thought the traveler came to get Kosoter...to simply show him the IF and it's why he is so utterly dedicated to 'saving our souls' with the Princess. He's not just some local guide and guardian that they chose at random- there were other Veterans and they'd easily be convinced by enough gold, power or 'FOR THE EMPRAH' shtick. Kellhus could have found a way. Instead, he chose Kosoter, a man that has been going on slogs since they became a thing. Why? He must have enough wealth or influence to be somewhere else? It can't simply be devotion to Kellhus that led him to do what he did and what no other men really could do. Kellhus intended for Mimara to be kept safe for a reason. He had a plan for her and Achamian).

The total crackpot I've also been kicking around about it is the one off-reference to walking the Outside. If someone goes there, they might return possessed by a ciphrang. Kellhus went around with the heads of them so he's clearly done it and knows how from the Daimos he's been learning. I thought this a simple misdirection that you can't see Kellhus' POV not only because it'd give away everything but because he's now controlled by a ciphrang. A ciphrang is given a task by its master when it is forced into the world and it isn't released until it's done it's job. It will do ANYTHING to accomplish it. I think it's possible that Kosoter was taken away by the traveler and possessed by a ciphrang and that's why he simply stands there when he's taken Akka and Mimara to the library. He just sits there, waiting to die. Relieved, almost. Relieved of all his burdens and free to return to the Outside like a good little ciphrang. I definitely think that's a far out possibility but it's one I've been considering for a long time.

Still though, far more likely for me that the traveler is just a dude that came up to show Kosoter the IF and convince him to protect Mimara and Akka until they get to the library. He must have been convinced that she has the power to save their souls. With his task complete, he accepts his fate. With his reference to remembering Hell (actual Hell, not simply terrible conditions from the war) and how utterly evil he looked in the Judging Eye, there's no way he can just be a simple dude.

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The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Favorite Scenes
« on: March 05, 2014, 03:51:40 pm »
I think my favourite scene was when Akka comes back from torture and ciphrangs to the horrifying reality of the Holy War. When he finally creeps into Esmenet's room after all they've been through together and he stammers "where will it be next time?". For all the suffering and naked cruelty in these books, I think that simple scene really cut me deeper than any of the others on a personal level. Akka never knew peace in his dreams or will with his death and he endured it all because she was his morning...and she does him like that? I think I genuinely hated Esmi for a bit after that.

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The Thousandfold Thought / Re: The fate of Cnaiur
« on: March 05, 2014, 03:16:46 pm »
For the longest time I was the only Kosoter in World of Warcraft but there's a couple of other ones now. What main tank didn't used to kill people (or just yell at them) for screwing around in raids? Kosoter was always the most iconic fighter/tank character in the entire series. I always take up the name in every game now and always get a laugh when someone else has a Prince of Nothing name. There's quite a lot of us out there.

As for looting the nimil gear I think it could have come from anywhere in the New Empire. I don't think it's really significant beyond showing the vast power and glory of the Empire under Kellhus' totally not suspicious and definitely beneficent rule. Although surely extremely rare and expensive, I can't imagine Kellhus incapable of finding a few sets of it somewhere in the entire world. I also like the idea that Fake Serwë let the other skinspies go free. Would they have escaped before Kellhus killed them? I doubt it. He certainly could have captured and broken others because his resources would have at least been as good as Big Moe for doing it. Anything his dad could have done, Kellhus could have done anyway with or without those specific skinspies.

I think Cnaiür just died there in the mansion. I wondered if Kellhus would have come back to reclaim his body later for some sneaky reason. I also wonder if the Consult took it...I'm not entirely sure how skinspies work and what kind of contact they have to have with a person to imitate them. I guess it works like face-dancers because of so many Dune influences but who knows? Maybe they take Cnaiür alive (and almost-dead) and assume his identity through his memories. I toyed with the idea that they went back to the Steppe with a fake Cnaiür and wrecked the place but Kellhus would have surely put a stop to any such nonsense.

I just didn't want the story to end there for him. A second skinspy became Serwë in the blink of an eye so maybe they can just make as many Cnaiürs as they want? I think they definitely would at least try to because he knows so much about their big new enemy. I guess recently I've just wanted TUC to end with Cnaiür becoming the No-God and singing 'Let it Go' as he zips around the world blowing everything up. Not going to happen :(

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