Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Topics - Hiro

Pages: [1]
The Unholy Consult / TUC Jason Deem artwork (possible spoilers...?)
« on: July 20, 2017, 05:11:51 pm »
Not sure if anyone mentioned this already somewhere, searching for Jason Deem or Overlook did not bring up anything relevant.
Overlook has tweeted, in anticipation of the looooong awaited US release, two of his preview images. I hope more will follow. Even these are majestic!

First one:

Second one:

[EDIT Madness: Added the pictures.]






General Misc. / Top 10 secrets in Fiction list, because Kellhus...
« on: July 12, 2017, 08:33:09 pm »


Literature can use secrecy as a device to ensnare readers, to pull the wool over their eyes or to reveal to them things that the characters can’t see. Whether large – businessman by day, serial killer by night; or small – where a character silently yearns for an ex-lover.

General Misc. / Interesting adaption coming up...
« on: July 10, 2017, 07:12:53 pm »

Has anyone here read Who Fears Death? It is pretty fresh, I am very interested to see it come alive on the screen.

The Great Ordeal / Some final TGO reread comments
« on: July 03, 2017, 05:16:08 pm »
Ishterebinth, still awe inspiring, albeit quite slow.

Dagliash, great to read in its entirety again. It seems the riders from the Ordeal, save from one or two passing references, have been left out of the battle. Where are they at? I assume east from the infantry, or driving the Horde westward, toward Dagliash? Not so clear to me.

Also, I'm less certain now that the nuke wiped out the entire Horde. It seems to be the case, but this did not stand out in my reread as fact. Lots of Sranc died, that's for sure.

A lot of 'scowling' in this book again, lots in Istherebinth, leading up to a point where not just the faces are scowling, no even the sorcery, on

page 337: Scowling lights crowned them, the flicker of distant sorcery.

It made me smile.

The Survivor metaphysics, I still don't fully get it, and I don't find it the most compelling material of the book. Which relates to my concern about the Judging Eye as a principle and element.

One small oddity concerning Malowebi, his presence at Fanayal's side as required as a narrative p.o.v. character becomes strained as the Momemn thread progresses.

Overall, this read as a much more thoughtful novel than the previous. My impression is that while the writing seems less coherent and propulsive as WLW, coherence is build in another way: a hall of mirrors of recurring and developing images and ideas, such as:

- The madness of Kellhus, of Kelmomas, of Koringhus, Ishterebinth, the Ordeal, the Sranc, Cnaiür, etc.

- Kellhus off to Momemn to save Esmenet, echoed and set up earlier by Koringhus saving and protecting his son.

- The sense of '...this already happened...', Koringhus and Kelmomas, possibly Kellhus and a faint echo Saubon at Dagliash--Mengedda.

- Koringhus taking the leap, Proyas held back from the edge by Kellhus.

Lastly, who thought it was a good idea to take a pregnant woman to Golgotterath?

That concludes my reread. Mildly, ahem, looking forward to TUC, I'm expecting it in the mail any day now.

The Great Ordeal / Chapter 6 reread, comments on Fanayal
« on: June 29, 2017, 02:09:59 pm »
Soooo. Remember that scene at the end of Revenge of the Sith, Darth Vader's unfortunate 'Nooooooo'?

That's what I feel about Fanayal's reaction to Meppa's wounded body. Twice even Fanayal cries out. To be honest, this skirts close to possible parody or humor, no? Perhaps Bakker is having a bit of fun here. I feel that the scene, if meant more seriously, would have been stronger with Fanayal *not* howling or crying out. Just omit that and let Psatma lure him out of his self-control.

And what happened when Fanayal went for Psatma, on

page 172:

The Padirajah lunged toward her, only to be hung from his wrists, held as if leashed to opposite corners of the pavilion. He craned his head about, crying out, groaning.

The text makes mention of The Dread Mother appearing, so I assume that Yatwer herself is protecting Psatma? What do you think?

Overall, a fun, imperfect scene.

This has been discussed, in parts, elsewhere, yet I think not pulling some of the stuff that I'll cite together, if so, excuse me. Some things I'll note might very well be noted elsewhere as well, again excuse me. As this chapter grabbed me and I wrestle with its meaning, scowling raucously I might add, I would merely like to present my comments and thoughts:

This TGO chapter is the first one that deals so extensively and confusingly with Kellhus own pov, after so many Earwan years and books. All the contradictions might point to his madness.

Kellhus's mystery is put forward in a strong way in this chapter. Complex and intriguing. First we get Kellhus's dream, on page 110 and

page 111:
And the Holy Aspect-Emperor of the Three Seas stares at the figure, stares at the tree, but cannot move. The firmament cycles like the wheel of an upturned cart.
   The figure seems to perpetually sink for the constellations rising about him. He speaks, but his face cannot be seen.
   I war not with Men, it says, but with the God.
   "Yet no one but Men die," the Aspect-Emperor replies.
   The fields must burn to drive Him forth from the Ground.
   "But I tend the fields."
   The dark figure stands beneath the tree, begins walking toward him. It seems the climbing stars should hook and carry him in the void, but he is like the truth of iron --- impervious and immovable.
   It stands before him, regards him --- as it has so many times --- with his face and his eyes. No halo gilds his leonine mane.
   Then who better to burn them?

A few things struck me. First this figure seems to be the No-God, and seems to forge or confirm a covenant with Kellhus. That Kellhus should assist the No-God in his battle against the God. Also, Kellhus refers to this figure as IT, which he uses later when he discusses the God with Proyas. However, is that not another IT entirely? The God instead of this possible No-God? Where Proyas thinks Kellhus refers to the God, perhaps Kellhus does not think IT is the God? Or are they the same for Kellhus?

Besides, it is possible that the figure takes on the form of Kellhus in order to manipulate him. As Kellhus seems to think that he is able to control everything, or a whole lot. Or it could be a projection of dreaming Kellhus. A confrontation of one part of his self with the other? This last question seems to get a payoff later, when Kellhus discusses hatred of self.

Then, on

page 121:
All the futures he had raised had been the issue of his toil…
   He suffered visions, certainly, but he had long ceased to trust them.

Apparently, Kellhus himself does not trust the dream that opens this chapter. He distrusts the manipulation of the No-God, if that is who the figure is, it might not be him, if he says so himself here. This is his own perspective, so textually fairly reliable.

Something very odd and notable, on

page 122:
Kellhus… grasped the decanter at his side to pour the man anpoi.
   "You ask this because you seek reasons," he said, passing the chanv-laced drink to the Believer-King. "You seek reasons because you are incomplete…"

Is Kellhus himself a chanv user, using it as an aid for quite some time? Or here just for Proyas...?

A little further on,

page 123:
"To be all things, Prosha, the God must be at once greater than itself and less."
   "Less? Less?"
   "Finite. A man. Like Inri Sejenus. Like me… To be all things, It must know ignorance, suffer suffering, fear and confus---"
   "And love?" The Exalt-General fairly cried. "What of love?"
   And for the first time that evening, Anasûrimbor Kellhus was surprised.
   Love was the logic that conserved Life as opposed to Truth… the twine that bounds hosts and nations from the myriad moments of Men.
   "Yes…Most of all."
   Love, far more than reason, was his principle tool.
   "Most of all…" Proyas repeated dully, his voice digging through the sand of torpor, the exhaustion of clinging intellect, staggered heart. "Why?"
   He does not want to know.
   The Place called Anasûrimbor Kellhus snuffed all extraneous considerations, aimed its every articulation at the soul drowning in the air before him.
   "Because of all the passions, nothing is so alien to the God as love."
   There was a head on a pole behind him.

So Kellhus is surprised by the reference to love. That could be an early setup for his return for Esmenet and Momemn. He states that the God does not know love, perhaps it is another argument ágainst the God and pro Consult / No-God? Complicated.

Kellhus uses the Truth as a weapon here, as we have seen the Dunyain do before. The description that follows seems to give a description of the God as the Dunyain-ideal:

page 124:
"…The infinite is impossible, Proyas, which is why Men are so prone to hide it behind reflections of themselves --- to give the God beards and desires! To call it 'Him'!"
   He raised a gold-haloed hand to his brow, feigning weariness. "No. Terror. Hatred of self. Suffering, ignorance, and confusion. These are the only honest ways to approach the God."
   The Believer-King dropped his face, hitched about a low sob.
   "This place… where you are now, Prosha. This is the revelation. The God is not comfort. The God is not law or love or reason, nor any other instrument of our crippled finitude. The God has no voice, no design, no heart or intellect…"
   The man wept as if coughing.
   "It is it… Unconditioned and absolute."

Besides it is that 'hatred of self' that strikes me, as the proper attitude towards the God. As a comment to our world, but also as referring to the possible No-God that appears before Kellhus as Kellhus, without the haloes.

It is interesting then how Kellhus stirs the importance of doubt, just like Akka did. As for instance on

page 126:
“My father had anticipated this, had known that the trial of my journey would transform me, that the assassin who had departed Ishuäl would arrive his disciple.”
   Petulant fury. Toddler defiance. “No! This canno—!”
   “But there was something he failed to realize …”
   Swollen indecision. Hope reaching out through anguish and asphyxiation, clutching for the reversal that would return everything to what had been. “What? What?”
   “That my trial would drive me mad.”
Well, does Kellhus really convey the real truth to Proyas? Does Kellhus think that he himself has gone mad? Earlier, on page 121, he did state that his visions are not reliable, so that implies that he is not fully sane. Or does he use this solely to sow deeper doubts in Proyas? Or both?


page 127:
“But you are my Lord! M-my salvation!”
   “Caraskand … The Circumfix …”
   “No—cease! Stop this! I’m-I’m begging you! Pleas—”
   “I began seeing … phantasms, hearing voices … Something began speaking to me.”
   “Please … I-I …”
   “And in my disorder, I listened … I did what it commanded.”
   Sobs wracked the man, the convulsions of a bereaved child. But these words yanked something through Proyas, as if he had been wound by a windlass and released. The Place relaxed its grip, lowered him back to its lap. The man’s bloodshot eyes fixed him heedless of any shame or fury.
   “I killed my own father,” the Place said.
   “The God! It has to be the God! The God spe—”
   “No, Proyas. Gird yourself. Peer into the horror!”
   I tend the fields …
   A glutinous breath. The squint of a soul attempting to squint away its own misgivings. “You think th-this voice is … is your own?”
   And burn them.
   The Place smiled the negligent smile of those who could have no stake in feuds so minor.
   “The truth of a thing lies in its origins, Proyas. I know not from whence this voice comes.”
   Hope, beaming with a hand-seizing urgency. “Heaven! It comes from Heaven! Can’t you see?”
   The Place gazed down at its most beautiful slave.
   “Then Heaven is not sane.”

Here, is Kellhus truthful that the Voice told him to kill his father? Was that not already his Dunyain-mission? It can coincide, of course. Only, is he claiming here that the Voice ánd the Dunyain are unreliable?

At the same time Kellhus thinks: I tend the fields …plus And burn them. This does imply that he is executing the mission of that No-God / figure from his dream. Or it serves as more evidence of his madness? Who knows?

Afterwards Kellhus rapes Proyas, on one hand to break his faith in him, surely, yet it also reminded me of something else: the Inchoroi. Through this action Kellhus does resemble them even more. And the concern that Moenghus would in the end serve the Consult, is now the concern that Kellhus will serve or help out the Consult.

The love for Esmenet, to save her, does seem to contradict Kellhus's plan, the TTT itself even. The Shortest Path, now with a detour?! What does that mean for his endgame? For or against the No-God. Hard to tell.

The White-Luck Warrior / Ordeal logistics and planning
« on: June 22, 2017, 06:32:49 pm »
I imagine Kellhus and his ProbTrance, plus Imperial planners, came up with the minimum amount of sorcerers / warriors needed to take down Golg. and the Consult.

Then, calculate how big the host, that is the Ordeal, should be, in order to ensure this minimum amount completes the journey and their mission.

Yet, how would Kellhus have enough info to arrive at these numbers?

I mean, has he or someone else done some extensive reconnaissance / fact-finding?

General Misc. / Article about a trauma surgeon and gun violence
« on: June 14, 2017, 04:58:53 pm »
Since we discussed gun-violence a few times in the Quorum, I'd thought I'd post a link to this article.

This topic is for further discussion and comments...

Author Q&A / Skin-spies...?
« on: May 29, 2017, 08:47:54 pm »
When were the Skin-spies created and or when did they become operational?

According to Gaörta, when talking to Kellhus in TWP, they are ancient. While the Mandate believes they are recent Tekne creations, from the past 300 years. Which explanation is correct?

Author Q&A / History and epic fantasy
« on: September 30, 2016, 03:21:50 pm »
While the philosophical roots and branches of these books have been puzzled over and examined at length, I was wondering about another aspect. History and our understanding of history. I remember reading in interviews your (Bakker's) interest in this, how we perceive, receive and understand history and beyond that, religions and myths.

What I would like to read more about, since much of this series is built on layers of revelation, and ambiguities and contradictions being revealed, is the series also an exploration of this problem of history - are we ever able to comprehend our (distant) history based on the artefacts and sources that remain? - I mean it is already *hard* to truly comprehend our current world, for which sources are available. Let alone times past. So that implies that it is hard to understand reality - ignorance is at the core of our nature, indeed.

To me, this series explores and reflects on these questions, does that track with the aims in writing it?

Introduce Yourself / Fresh from the SRD-forum
« on: September 28, 2016, 02:13:58 pm »
Hullo there,

After a long time lurking, after having read all the PON and TAS released so far, I'd like to join in the conversation.

Pages: [1]