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Messages - TLEILAXU

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76
General Misc. / Re: 'How the Brain Creates a Timeline of the Past'
« on: February 14, 2019, 02:01:14 pm »
Ya I spent too much time debating on whether to include a snarky comment I forgot to put the link

77
General Misc. / 'How the Brain Creates a Timeline of the Past'
« on: February 14, 2019, 01:15:40 am »
This article at quanta might of interest to some of you here.

78
Philosophy & Science / Re: Consciousness Live! with Bakker
« on: February 06, 2019, 03:39:30 pm »
I've watched other stuff but I'll be honest, the frequency of his 'uhh's often makes me space out and lose interest.

79
Philosophy & Science / Re: Consciousness Live! with Bakker
« on: February 06, 2019, 02:14:54 am »
Just gotta say I watched it and it was a fine discussion, interviewer was down to earth.

80
General Misc. / Re: Video Game Thread! What are you playing?
« on: February 05, 2019, 04:48:36 pm »
Dark Souls III and its DLC are on sale on steam, so I ended up caving in and buying the DLC. Going to try and not to instantly spend 48 hours in there, since I've other shit to do. If anybody's looking for an immersive RPG with incredible atmosphere that has no qualms about kicking your ass, I can only recommend this game.
What does the DLC add? New bosses I'd hope.

I got bored rolling around after beating the second throne boss, but I can see the appeal. Finally beating a boss after dying a few dozen times was extremely satisfying. The biggest downside for me though is that it takes large blocks of dedicated time, which is becoming more and more elusive, especially because I'm terrible at these kinds of games lol.
New bosses, new areas, new items, new spells. A lot of the +3 rings can be found in the Ringed City for example. It is time consuming, but hey, isn't it more fun to get into one game heavily rather than 10 cursorily?

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General Misc. / Re: Video Game Thread! What are you playing?
« on: February 05, 2019, 03:29:37 pm »
Dark Souls III and its DLC are on sale on steam, so I ended up caving in and buying the DLC. Going to try and not to instantly spend 48 hours in there, since I've other shit to do. If anybody's looking for an immersive RPG with incredible atmosphere that has no qualms about kicking your ass, I can only recommend this game.

82
General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: February 02, 2019, 12:53:00 am »
From Heretics of Dune
Quote
... our God is a magical God whose language we speak."

You've brought this up in conversation before, TL - what about it speaks to you?
To speak God's language is to be able to perform miracles on demand. What solace do mere beliefs provide in comparison?

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Philosophy & Science / Re: Consciousness Live! with Bakker
« on: January 31, 2019, 04:17:23 pm »
I guess Bakker did not even do so much as mention it to anybody.

84
Philosophy & Science / Re: The Benefits of Optimism Are Real
« on: January 16, 2019, 02:29:36 am »
Quote from:  H
Well, there is a very good reason we never recommended it to you...

Really? What? In genuinely at a loss as to why you guys wouldn't want me participating in your "mindfulness" endeavors....

;)

The initiation rituals aren't for everyone, you know?

Not to mention, it's all a zero-sum game.  If we let everyone else get more mindful and confident, then we necessarily won't be as much.
Lol'd.
Real talk though, I agree with some of the points made in the OP, but on the other hand I do feel a lot of this 'just have a positive attitude man ;)' is bullshit. Like, somewhat related, there was this smiling study that was debunked some years ago https://www.livescience.com/56740-facial-feedback-hypothesis-fails-in-replication-attempt.html
Stuff like that needs to fuck off.

85
Philosophy & Science / Re: The Benefits of Optimism Are Real
« on: January 15, 2019, 04:28:51 am »
I bet y'all go to mindfulness classes and read self-help books about being positive and confident like Wilshire, H and Madness.

86
Study Tackles Neuroscience Claims to Have Disproved “Free Will” by Matt Shipman

Quote
“Meanwhile, the journal articles that drew the most forceful conclusions often didn’t even assess the neural activity in question – which means their conclusions were based on speculation,” Dubljevic says. “It is crucial to critically examine whether the methods used actually support the claims being made.”

This is important because what people are told about free will can affect their behavior.

“Numerous studies suggest that fostering a belief in determinism influences behaviors like cheating,” Dubljevic says. “Promoting an unsubstantiated belief on the metaphysical position of non-existence of free will may increase the likelihood that people won’t feel responsible for their actions if they think their actions were predetermined.”

And this isn’t a problem solely within the neuroscience community. Earlier work by Dubljevic and his collaborators found challenges in how this area of research has been covered by the press and consumed by the public.

“To be clear, we’re not taking a position on free will,” Dubljevic says. “We’re just saying neuroscience hasn’t definitively proven anything one way or the other.”

Quote
This is important because what people are told about free will can affect their behavior.
Oh the irony (or not). I wonder what those 'Numerous studies suggest that fostering a belief in determinism influences behaviors like cheating' are. I'm biased here, but it sounds a bit like bullshit to me. What if it's more dependent on the tone of the text than the content? Imagine fostering a belief in free will by making people read Ayn Rand before taking a behavioral test, surely that could also have an impact.

87
General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: January 14, 2019, 06:13:13 pm »
From Heretics of Dune
Quote
... our God is a magical God whose language we speak."

88
Neuropath / Re: Countering the Argument with Thorsten
« on: January 14, 2019, 05:06:15 pm »
I've gone through some of Bakker's stuff, and eliminativism did seem like a live possibility but then I read Alex Rosenberg's stuff about Intentionality in Atheist's Guide to Reality where he says we simply have to be wrong about having thoughts:

Quote
"A more general version of this question is this: How can one clump of stuff anywhere in the universe be about some other clump of stuff anywhere else in the universe—right next to it or 100 million light-years away?

...Let’s suppose that the Paris neurons are about Paris the same way red octagons are about stopping. This is the first step down a slippery slope, a regress into total confusion. If the Paris neurons are about Paris the same way a red octagon is about stopping, then there has to be something in the brain that interprets the Paris neurons as being about Paris. After all, that’s how the stop sign is about stopping. It gets interpreted by us in a certain way. The difference is that in the case of the Paris neurons, the interpreter can only be another part of the brain...

What we need to get off the regress is some set of neurons that is about some stuff outside the brain without being interpreted—by anyone or anything else (including any other part of the brain)—as being about that stuff outside the brain. What we need is a clump of matter, in this case the Paris neurons, that by the very arrangement of its synapses points at, indicates, singles out, picks out, identifies (and here we just start piling up more and more synonyms for “being about”) another clump of matter outside the brain. But there is no such physical stuff.

Physics has ruled out the existence of clumps of matter of the required sort...

…What you absolutely cannot be wrong about is that your conscious thought was about something. Even having a wildly wrong thought about something requires that the thought be about something.

It’s this last notion that introspection conveys that science has to deny. Thinking about things can’t happen at all...When consciousness convinces you that you, or your mind, or your brain has thoughts about things, it is wrong."

The idea we don't have thoughts about things, Intentionality....it seems to me the correct conclusion is materialism is false not that Cogito Ergo Sum is a mistake.
I don't understand the argument. Couldn't you just as easily make an analogy consisting of say, a robot with a camera? The camera takes as input photons from the surroundings and creates an output consisting of an array of pixels or something upon which further computations are then done in order to make some decision according to some goal function. There's no infinite regress here. Generally I don't like comparing a human brain with a piece of software but I think this is one case where the analogy makes sense, except you have a lot of higher order representations, computations etc. going on because you literally have like a trillion interconnected cells.

Regarding our similarity to other organisms...I mean bees apparently understand the concept of Zero so perhaps mentality goes down further than we think, maybe even as deep as the panpsychics suggest.  ;)

89
Neuropath / Re: Countering the Argument with Thorsten
« on: January 13, 2019, 03:48:08 pm »
Those are some long ass articles so I didn't read nearly all of it, just going to post some quotes and comment on them.

From the first article.
Quote
Ironically, by locating consciousness in particular parts of the material of the brain, neuroscientism actually underlines this mystery of intentionality, opening up a literal, physical space between conscious experiences and that which they are about. This physical space is, paradoxically, both underlined and annulled: The gap between the glass of which you are aware and the neural impulses that are supposed to be your awareness of it is both a spatial gap and a non-spatial gap. The nerve impulses inside your cranium are six feet away from the glass, and yet, if the nerve impulses reach out or refer to the glass, as it were, they do so by having the glass “inside” them. The task of attempting to express the conceptual space of intentionality in purely physical terms is a dizzying one. The perception of the glass inherently is of the glass, whereas the associated neural activity exists apart from the cause of the light bouncing off the glass. This also means, incidentally, that the neural activity could exist due to a different cause. For example, you could have the same experience of the glass, even if the glass were not present, by tickling the relevant neurons. The resulting perception will be mistaken, because it is of an object that is not in fact physically present before you. But it would be ludicrous to talk of the associated neural activity as itself mistaken; neural activity is not about anything and so can be neither correct nor mistaken.
Isn't this essentially a God of the Gaps argument? Just because we cannot describe this mental representation in neuroscientific terms it does not necessarily follow that there is some ontological difference between that separates human consciousness from the rest of the universe.

From the second article; he keeps going with the intentionality argument. 
Quote
The case for determinism will prevail over the case for freedom so long as we look for freedom in a world devoid of the first-person understanding — and so we will have to reacquaint ourselves with the perspective that comes most naturally to us. Recall that, if we are to be correct in our intuition that we are free, the issue of whether or not we are the origin of our actions is central. Seen as pieces of the material world, we appear to be stitched into a boundless causal net extending from the beginning of time through eternity. How on earth can we then be points of origin? We seem to be a sensory input linked to motor output, with nothing much different in between. So how on earth can the actor truly initiate anything? How can he say that the act in a very important sense begins with him, that he owns it and is accountable for it — that “The buck starts here”?

The key to this ownership lies in intentionality. This is not to be confused with intentions, the purposes of actions. “Intentionality” designates the way that we are conscious of something, and that the contents of our consciousness are thus about something. Intentionality, in its fully developed form, is unique to human beings, who alone are fully-fledged subjects explicitly related to objects. It is the seed of the self and of freedom. It is, as of now, entirely mysterious — which is not to say that it is supernatural or in principle beyond our understanding, but rather that it cannot be explained entirely in terms of the processes and laws that operate in the material world. Its relevance here is that it is the beginning of the process by which human beings transcend the material world, without losing contact with it. Human freedom begins with this about-ness of human consciousness.
Again, I cannot see it any other way than a God of the Gaps. It is clever because it's very hard to argue against a mode of reasoning from a 'scientific' perspective, but if you flip things around and instead of asking why should consciousness be 'reducible' to 'science', why should it not? It is known and uncontroversial that we share the same basic charactistics as every other living thing on earth. Our basic metabolic pathways are more or less identical to the basic metabolic pathways in E. coli, our macromolecules are made out of the same monomers. Are we truly different or are we, ironically due to our 'hardwiring', not so different, but inclined to think so because of some sort of anthropo-centric intentional thought process?

Also, regarding intentionalism, Bakker has like 1000 blogposts about that stuff.

90
Quote
"With this work, we can imagine enormous opportunities for next-generation bio-hybrid applications," Mannoor says. "For example, some bacteria can glow, while others sense toxins or produce fuel. By seamlessly integrating these microbes with nanomaterials, we could potentially realize many other amazing designer bio-hybrids for the environment, defense, healthcare and many other fields."
This would be amazing. Imagine living in a world with living lamps etc.

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