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Messages - sciborg2

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1126
General Earwa / Re: Who'll live through TUC?
« on: August 28, 2013, 05:20:48 am »
Damn Sci, Aurang, Akka and Shae? That's interesting. What makes you say that?

Then again, you are a contrarian wanker.  ;)

I don't think TUC ends in a half-measured conclusion. Either the Ordeal defeats the Consult or they fail and the No-God walks.

I expect the Ordeal to at the least enter the Ark even [if] this requires Ciphrang summoned via the Daimos to take point. Either in the initial Daimotic attack or subsequent Gnostic barrage I expect that circle of amputees keeping Shae around to topple.

Aurang will likely take to the field, probably with an army of skin spies but recall that Kellhus can hammer thousands of Sranc all at once. I don't see Aurang surviving that onslaught.

Akka I just don't see making it out of this, though here I'm employing more meta-thinking. Given his age and his primary purpose of confronting/exposing Kellhus, what's left for him to do in the third book?

eta: I blew my wanker wad on coming up with Esmi's brothel-limbo.  ;)

1127
General Earwa / Re: Who'll live through TUC?
« on: August 28, 2013, 04:46:38 am »
People who die: Eskeles, Saubon, Iyokus, Saccarees, Kelmomas, Theli, Fayanal, Psatma, the WLW, Aurang, Shae, Akka, Sarl

People who probably die: Sorweel, Kellhus, Kayutas, Lil' Moe, Aurax, Meppa, Zsoronga, Esmenet

People who live: Mimara, Serwa, Proyas

1128
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Musing about the Outside
« on: August 28, 2013, 04:30:59 am »
It could just as easily be that demonic Ciphrang congregate closest to objective reality due to ease of access to souls, like predators at a river bank.

True, but I was thinking about Mimara looking into the chorae and seeing a false foil - and beyond that rind lies Heaven.

@Francis - Quote and link:

Quote
The caprice of the Outside (where the distinction between subject and object is never clear) is such that those rare souls who walk its ways and return never seem to agree on the nature of what they have seen. Since only demonic (as opposed to angelic) Ciphrang can be summoned and trapped in the World, practitioners of the Daimos can never trust the reports they receive: the so-called Damnation Archives in the Scarlet Spires are rumoured to be filled with wild contradictions. The Damned themselves only know that they are damned, and never why.
-http://www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/2011/07/r-scott-bakker-interview-part-2.html

1129
Excellent post Callan!

I think you have the right of it, how shifts in what seems reasonable can lead us to Inchie morality without us realizing how far we've deviated from normal.

Brings new meaning to Aurang whining to Kellhus about being damned for violating boundaries of skin.

1130
Philosophy & Science / Re: Rupert Sheldrake
« on: August 28, 2013, 03:51:45 am »
What's the best evidence for the paranormal?

My understanding is its the Krippner dream telepathy experiments, or am I wrong about that?

1131
The White-Luck Warrior / Musing about the Outside
« on: August 28, 2013, 02:55:45 am »
A thread to discuss what the properties of the Outside is. Just shooting the shit, so just throw out any speculation you please.

For example, I was thinking about the fact that Angelic Ciphrang can't be summoned. The way Bakker says it, this could either mean no such Ciphrang exist, or it could mean that they do exist but no one has caught one via the Daimos...possibly because some property of being Angelic prevents their conjuration into Earwa.

Perhaps the reason is a matter of subjective distance - That the Hells are closer to the world than the Heavens. Think back to the Ajencis's thoughts on Substance and Desire, how the Outside becomes more malleable - and thus conforms to whims of powerful agencies - the farther one goes from Earwa.

But what if the suffering experienced by mortal souls is what makes the surrounding Outside hellish? Planets alter the nearby Outside so the Ciphrang who were born near Earwa reflect the harshness of material existence, while beyond this rind are the Heavens?

That would tie into Mimara seeing the Abyss as a false foil, and beyond it is the infinite white light of the God...which is where the angels dwell.

1132
You lied to her.

No. I told her a story.

Shit! You sound just like your dad.

Actually I was thinking of something...my mother said. That most
times, the truth is like a close-up conjuring trick. You can look
straight at something and think you're seeing the truth of it. But
really, you're seeing what someone else wants you to see.

So FUCK the truth. We don't know where it is, and we probably won't
know it when we see it. She just chose the story she needs right now.

The story that keeps her standing. That's probably all any of us get to do.
  -the Unwritten # 17: The Many Lives of Lizzie Hexam

1133
General Earwa / Re: Trying to solve the Whodunit? (As in who is Damned?)
« on: August 28, 2013, 01:25:45 am »
Sorry but... Gin'y?

King Gin'yursis of Cil-Aujas.

Some thoughts on the Inverse Fire - Looking at the passages in which Shae describes his experience, this particular part stands out:

Quote
All that mattered, the Ground’s only consequential thing, was what he had seen…

Damnation.

Experience shredded into a thousand strings, each clawed and burned and burned, sucked like bottomless bones. Agony. Anguish. Horror. Lament. Shame… Shrieking-thrashing-screaming through the throat of his every memory, innumerable and one, groaning-choking-vomiting, his every particle a unique agony, a bereavement, a weeping-howling-scratching out eyes that grew and grew to witness anew, while burning-blistering-breaking–

He simultaneously talks about he's seen, and what's experienced. Seems like looking into the IF makes him experience his own damnation.

But then how does he know that it is his damnation? The knowledge here seems to be born of some kind of personal gnosis, where one ascribes the quality of Truth to the experience.

This is exactly what people feel in Kellhus's presence, where anyone who spends time with him begins to think he just might be divine.

The profoundness of the experience is taken as proof, yet this is what we've been warned against time and time again by the text.

1134
General Earwa / Re: Trying to solve the Whodunit? (As in who is Damned?)
« on: August 28, 2013, 12:30:24 am »
Quote
Hah, Sci. I can see we're both posting here and Westeros at the same time. You just answered a question I asked over there not a minute ago.

Yeah I'll think of something there but am starting to make more posts here as so many conversations about the series don't have room to breathe in just one Bakker thread. :-)

On the topic of damnation we have everyone's competing beliefs with some anecdotal evidence that I plan to dig into, though not necessarily in order:

-Meppa sees into the Outside.
-Psatma's soul has apparently been to the Outside and back.
-Kellhus as been to the Outside with his physical body.
-Mimara has a Judging Eye that apparently sees damnation.
-The Inverse Fire
-A Ciphrang saying Iyokus will be damned for summoning it. Iyokus says that is his fate regardless, yet Eli is very surprised that he'll be damned.
-Gin'y is damned.

1135
Childish Gambino's Freaks and Geeks

Daughter's Still


1136
General Earwa / Trying to solve the Whodunit? (As in who is Damned?)
« on: August 27, 2013, 10:27:33 pm »
Bakker has referred to this series as a metaphysical whodunit, but do we have enough definitive clues to answer "Who is Damned?"

A big challenge to this, from my perspective, is we don't have much objective information.

Perhaps smarter minds than mine can figure out how to use the subjective evidence of all the varied PoVs to piece together an answer?

1137
General Earwa / Re: Who'll live through TUC?
« on: August 27, 2013, 03:44:09 am »
Quote
Esmi -- I personally think the WLW "predictions" are mostly true, so I think she'll be done for by the end of TUC. I'm not really sure where else her character has to go beyond that anyway.

Esmi will die, but her particular Limbo will be sitting in a brothel, pondering what it's like to be a sex worker for the rest of the series.

(Okay, I'll try and come up with serious answers later. Just couldn't resist. Plus I gotta live up to my custom title yo!)

1138
General Earwa / Requests for Tree Imagery from the Earwa novels.
« on: August 27, 2013, 01:47:31 am »
Post your tree imagery quotes here - whatever you recall.

I'll think about organizing it by book in the OP or perhaps in a PDF.

1139
You could always catalog them somewhere over here if you wanted :P

Yeah, I'm not sure how much I want to dig through Westeros's archives but I was thinking a thread on the magic systems would be good.

Also, someone over there suggested a tree imagery catalog which I'll start.

1140
Quote
Sciborg and Callan S come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

It's been awhile since I really felt I knew what was going on at TPB. It's definitely encouraged me to better understand philosophy, but as a layman reading Wikipedia mixed a few academic essays it's not an easy going.

I do think this board could use some love, especially as a place to consolidate and keep track of the varied theories. The Westeros threads are great, but it's a headache trying to find a theory or idea in them from months to years past.

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