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Four-horned brother... Sil's symbol (the alpha/omega thing) is kinda like a four horned head, doncha think? :pTangentaly;I was theorizing to myself just yesterday that Ajokli could be a remnant of the Inchie pantheon from their pre-exposure to the inverse fire days...If the hundred (or at least their mini-dimensions) are shaped (evolutionarily) from coagulations of human emotion (divided by their portfolios) and Ciphrang are similarly made from what they "eat" (i.e. regret and suffering) - then it's possible that the Inchies once had similar outside agencies interested in them, yes?Either way, the fact that Ajokli is said to be/have been the consort of Gierra lines up with Inchie predictiliations.
who is gierra again?
Gierra - God of carnal passion. Often cast as a malign temptress, luring men to the luxury of her couch, often with fatal consequences.
The way that I take it, while Akka might call Fate "The Whore," Gierra is perhaps more the whore.
Certainly, she is the patron of whores, I think. Esmenet says something to the effect that the whores are most like to give alms to her temples or something. I seem to recall that her preistesses go out giving it up to all and sundry on her holy days and during some other celebrations, but they don't take coin for their favours.
Wow, it's amazing how good a grip on second apocalypse characters and events that you people on this forum have. It's making me feel amateurish when formulating ideas about the Bakkerian universe :-) Concerning the No-God, I'm however still intrigued by the statements of the No-god: "WHAT DO YOU SEE? I MUST KNOW WHAT YOU SEE... TELL ME... WHAT AM I? I CANNOT S-" (TWP, p19) To me that states the No-god as an entity that is unclear about itself, that has the concept of sight clearly defined, but that is definately experiencing the lack of signt. All the ideas about the No-god as being connected to a previous Inchoroi godlike entity (if that is what Ajolki is) are very interesting, but the insecurity of the No-god would seem to indicate that it is not an ancient entity that has been summoned. Rather it appears to have been created as a new, but extremely powerful, entity.
Lol, Galbrod, cheers. Know that much of our theorizing - though based on majorily canonical sources - is still full of shit.Dive in, friend.
Yeah most of our musings are madness...Anyway, I don't think the lack of sight disproves him being an old entity. Perhaps the summoning from the outside, or whatever, causes Him to go blind. At the same time, now this blind thing is shoved into a sarcophagus and loosed into an alien world.Blind, trapped, and thoroughly confused, WHAT DO YOU SEE would seem to be a valid question by anyone, new or old.
The most quoted question would definately seem to be: WHAT DO YOU SEE? I however find the follow-up question even more interesting: WHAT AM I? It is of course possible that an entity that has been summoned from the outside has gone blind, but this existential question would seem to hint that the counsciousness of the No-God is something that is either newly created or has gone through some sort of radical change...
Another thing that seems important to keep in mind is the cycle of watcher and watched that was mentioned in Achamian's Library of Sauglish dream. I'm not really sure what to make of it, but it seems potentially relevant to the No-God.
I've noted it before, but the God and the No-god seem to be opposites some interesting ways.The god seems to exist within all souled creatures (according to Kellhus) and thus percieves itself through everyone, whilst remaining unconcious of its own existence as a seperate entity ("the god slumbers - it has ever been thus"). Kelhus manipulates this conection when he uses the logos (the spark of the divine) to see out of the eyes of others - he does a perspective swap to both Esme and Akka in PoN. So the god seems to exist in the outside and has some link to all souls via the logos, providing the link that allows souls to move between the realms of subjectivity and objectivity.The no-god is conscious, but cannot percieve himself. He seems to extend himself through the weapon races (he co-ordinates the sranc, bashrag and wracu and his voice is heard emenating through their throats...) but we know that they lack curiousity beyond their programmed urges and direct instructions and cannot deal with the nature of paradox (i.e. they are all effectively the same creature) so they can provide no insight into his questions. -The no-god's existence prevents new souls from entering the world, and he seems to "eat" or otherwise interfere with the passage of souls back to the outside (see the reference to tasting Celmomas' soul from Skafra and the fate of those killed on the plains of Mengedda, where the consult almost achieved their objective and the no-god might have reached his apotheosis).The no-god exists in the objective world and seeks to sever or reverse the link from the objective to subjective realms. I think the reason the no-god's words are so creepy and affecting is that they suggest utter loneliness coupled with a complete lack of empathy. Whatever else it is, I think if it is a soul or ubersoul (like the hundred), it is completely seperated from the Earwan god.
Curethan, you've inspired the new question - what kind of cognitive atmosphere does the No-God experience? Is he receiving datum from his extremities (in this case, Sranc, Bashrag, Wracu, Skin-Spies, and X to come) that then culminate and manifest in its perspective?
Hmmm, Madness.I guess the thing there is that the weapon races do not impart meaning into their experiences. They are strictly action/reaction meat machines, behaving according to their built in hungers.Interesting aside here, Position Sranc et al on Mazlow's pyramid... they barely make the first level, and their physiological needs are all by design.Does Mog even have a perspective? The no-god demands reflective experiences, and yet he is the angel of endless hunger. A cognitive black hole, and yet capable of directing his resources towards attempting to fulfil his hungers/objectives.Clearly, a mystery wrapped in an enigma, jamed into a paradox inside a carapace riveted by contradictions.
Quote from: CurethanA cognitive black hole, and yet capable of directing his resources towards attempting to fulfil his hungers/objectives.This. You've hit something here.Bakker's big on agnosia, especially anosognosia.
A cognitive black hole, and yet capable of directing his resources towards attempting to fulfil his hungers/objectives.
Lol, a god with anosognosia. The death of meaning. Goes around unmaking people.I wonder what happened to Celmomas. How could he have that prophetic vision and then get nommed by Mog?True and false prophecies indeed... methinks Seswatha's dream of the prophecy might be lies.
