The Second Apocalypse
Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Unholy Consult => Topic started by: codebread on July 30, 2017, 03:48:47 am
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Maybe this one just went over my head, but how did the Scalding confirm that the Dunyain had taken over the Consult? Kellhus mentions it while talking with the Mutilated, but I don't see the connection.
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Probably the use of a nuke. Inferred it from that.
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Their ability to resurrect the Tenke, via a nuke.
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And the use of the nuke giving a fucking damn about their own horde.
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Kellhus might have inferred an increasing rate of innovation by the Consult as far back as the unprecedented Sayothi Skin-Spy as far back as TJE?
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If he somehow, because Dunyain Fantasy, Kellhus internalized within the few seconds of exposure to the nuke its entire implications as a weapon (and therefore would extrapolate industrial capacity required, which is so immense that modern nation states find it challenging) then hes probably deep-diving some universal-truth-under-consciousness and therefore would know that he's lost.
If you can pull off nuclear restoration/enrichment then you can much more easily nail concepts like Production Lines and Mass-Manufacturing and apply that to your slave horde.
Nevermind that none of that makes a lick of sense, IF it happened it would probably cause Kellnus to get desperate enough to make a deal with the devil, intentionally, as its probably his only shot at winning.
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They "restored" the nuke they didn't need to create any centrifuges or heavy water plants, find some U235 etc. It's quoted in the book.
Kellhus is also mad.
Could be anything he saw, maybe the display used certain maths that reminded him of the maths cut into the thousand thousand halls.
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Slightly off-topic. If they were going to put Kellhus in the Sarcophagus, on the assumption that he is the No-God (something which the Mutilated do state specifically in the Golden Room chapter), then why were they also trying to nuke him?
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They were covering all the possibilities.
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We can only speculate, then. I wasn't sure if it was a clear answer that I simply missed. I tend to agree with Madness that the sudden increase in the Consult's Tekne efficiency is the likely cause.
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Maybe also from the quote we get from Aurang at Dagliash about the days being new "and far shorter than the old"? The quote did have me puzzled every time... This could explain.
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Kellhuss knew about the effects of the nuke because they had been used against the Nonmen and he had read the accounts of the Isuphiryas
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Maybe also from the quote we get from Aurang at Dagliash about the days being new "and far shorter than the old"? The quote did have me puzzled every time... This could explain.
The quote means the end of the world is nigh.
As for the change in strategy (remember, he is already considering the possibility of Dunyain involvement in the Consult) the marked departure at Daglaish is the reliance on devices contrived by the Tekne as opposed to the cannon fodder slave races. The Consult's previous tactics have revolved around the Weapon Races doing the heavy lifting. In this case the Weapon Races are the distraction.
As for killing him, the Consult know he can teleport and has metagnostic wards as well as believing that him becoming the No-God is inevitable. Even if he does die it works out for them as his army and empire will be struck a severe blow and they can try to seize one of his children to feed the Sarcophagus.
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Slightly off-topic. If they were going to put Kellhus in the Sarcophagus, on the assumption that he is the No-God (something which the Mutilated do state specifically in the Golden Room chapter), then why were they also trying to nuke him?
Pretty sure they knew full well that there was almost no chance it would actually kill Kellhus. That trap for for the Ordeal itself, really.
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It's also axiomatic that the Ordeal would succumb to eating Sranc apparently. The Scalded are a small portion of the Ordeal.
The Nuke is to take out the Horde after they do what damage they can to the Ordeal.
Which is decidedly a Dunyain observation and response.
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It's also axiomatic that the Ordeal would succumb to eating Sranc apparently. The Scalded are a small portion of the Ordeal.
The Nuke is to take out the Horde after they do what damage they can to the Ordeal.
Which is decidedly a Dunyain observation and response.
This. Of all the attacks on the ordeal, deploying the nuke to eliminate a food source was distinctly "shortest path".
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Truly dunyain indeed.
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It also was a pretty distinct shift of tactics, something the Consult wasn't too apt to do previously...
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Normally the bad guys are dumb because that is what is required for the good guys to win. Now I'm starting to think Bakker is deliberately showing us that yes the Consult isn't that bright---but now they got a major upgrade in brain power with Dunyain running the show.
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Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Likaro. Hope we get to meet your scheming ass in TNG.
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So I took this to mean something along the lines of them betraying their logic process.
So in chess, when you see a certain opening sequence, or a certain gambit, you know your opponent has studied a certain type of style. I think it's the same here, where Kellhus finally sees the unmistakable gambit/logic path of Ishual, and there could only be one conclusion. I also remember he was quiet for a good long time, staring at the machine. Maybe he was doing his probability trance, hunting the threads of the Thousand Fold Thought that accounted for other Dunyain. Then he says not everyone can be saved, but amends it with 'this is a good thing.' Now why the shit would he say that? Besides the fact that he is constantly playing the prophet and saying cryptic shit to confuse and better possess people, I think, once he knew there were Dunyain in control of the Consult, he IMMEDIATELY knew how to defeat them, because he knows how they think, but he has been in the world for more than 20 years, and knows things they cannot fathom. He was precisely correct when he said 'I am the greater mystery here.'
Clever. Bastard.
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I still don't buy it. The Consult was innovating before this. The Skin Spies were new. He had no way of knowing how recent the nuke being salvaged was, either. Hell, how did he even know it was a nuke?
It's basically down to Dunyain magic.
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I still don't buy it. The Consult was innovating before this. The Skin Spies were new. He had no way of knowing how recent the nuke being salvaged was, either. Hell, how did he even know it was a nuke?
It's basically down to Dunyain magic.
The glossary indicates similar devices were used in the Nonmen-Inchoroi wars.