Earwa > The White-Luck Warrior
Dunyain Weakness
Bertxi:
I find it hard to dismiss the feeling that Bakker is leading up to a very big hook coming off stage right to grab Kellhus and gaffle him. Sprinkled throughout TJE, and TWLW, we have examples of Dunyain fallibility, and the general contempt for the “world born men”. Maithanet’s miscalculation regarding Esmenet regarding Kellhus’ own reasons for giving her the command of the New Empire, Maithanet not fully realizing what a monster Kelmomas was/is, Kellhus reading Sorwell’s face incorrectly due to his god masking, Inrilates incorrectly thinking that he could kill Maithanet, Kayutas and Serwa not guessing the fact that the consult might attack them from the rear when they both should know about the hording tendencies of the Sranc. There is also the question if Kellhus knew that the army of the South would be annihilated, and had already calculated that into his Thousand Fold Thought. All the half Dunyain seem to having glaring weakness due to their feelings of superiority, and it seems to reason that Kellhus, who now seems to believe that he is something more, would share this too. If his objectivity is damaged, then wouldn’t his conclusions reached through his Thousand Fold Thought be flawed as well? He might very well be setting into motion the very thing that he set out to stop, because he just doesn’t understand the Consult, the No-God, or believes incorrectly that he has been truly sent to save the human race.
Cüréthañ:
Welcome Bertxi, nice first post. ;)
Not sold on Kellhus being fooled by Sorweel, but it does seem that way.
Further, during PoN there are a few other times when he is nearly screwed by miscalculations and comes through by luck:
* vs the Nonman as random encounter after leaving Ishual,
* vs sranc before being rescued by Cnaiur on the stepe,
* vs Aurang-as-Esme he nearly gets screwed by cants he should have known about.
* Kellhus admits to himself that he should have killed Cnaiur in TWP.
* on the circumfix, he is saved again by Cnaiur in spite of the admission aboveAlso, when he kills Moe there is a strong possibility that the reason he does so is because of a twig in his shoe rather than the conclusion that Moe would betray TTT.
Is he relying on the probability trance now, or acting according to what he thinks 'the world' or 'god' is telling him?
On a side note, I can't help but compare the scene where Kellhus spoke to the world soul in TTT and Kelmomas 'communing' with Ajokli at the start of TJE.
If Ajokli is aware of the no-god, he might be the one holding the hook. :) Trickster god blindsides everyone, fufufu.
Madness:
+1 Curethan. Bertxi, if you have lurked around at all you may know too that locke is a major proponent of Dunyain Fallibility. Also, welcome to the Second Apocalypse.
--- Quote from: Bertxi on November 27, 2013, 07:10:38 am ---Maithanet’s miscalculation regarding Esmenet regarding Kellhus’ own reasons for giving her the command of the New Empire, Maithanet not fully realizing what a monster Kelmomas was/is, Kellhus reading Sorwell’s face incorrectly due to his god masking, Inrilates incorrectly thinking that he could kill Maithanet, Kayutas and Serwa not guessing the fact that the consult might attack them from the rear when they both should know about the hording tendencies of the Sranc.
--- End quote ---
These are half-Dunyain problems as you note. Kellhus' got 99 problems but this ain't necessarily one.
But...
- Kelmomas avoids scrutiny of anyone but his mother effortfully.
- Kellhus reading Sorweel is ambiguous - he may or may not have spent enough time around Sorweel to realize the dissonance in anticipating his thoughts or Yatwer plays Kellhus.
- Kelmomas kills Maithanet and used Inrilatas as a tool, arguably, while Inrilatas may have achieved some obscure personal ends by trying to die as the most Damned soul.
- No one thinks about the possibility of Yoke Legions, including the Mandate who dreamed of them...
--- Quote from: Bertxi on November 27, 2013, 07:10:38 am ---There is also the question if Kellhus knew that the army of the South would be annihilated, and had already calculated that into his Thousand Fold Thought.
--- End quote ---
+1 - I believe this to be so. Certainly, any military leader worth his weight in salt would have anticipated and planned for losing as much as half of their forces on both a forced and fighting march.
--- Quote from: Bertxi on November 27, 2013, 07:10:38 am ---All the half Dunyain seem to having glaring weakness due to their feelings of superiority, and it seems to reason that Kellhus, who now seems to believe that he is something more, would share this too. If his objectivity is damaged, then wouldn’t his conclusions reached through his Thousand Fold Thought be flawed as well? He might very well be setting into motion the very thing that he set out to stop, because he just doesn’t understand the Consult, the No-God, or believes incorrectly that he has been truly sent to save the human race.
--- End quote ---
+1 - anyone of those interpretations is possible. I for one still think Kellhus capable of managing...
Wilshire:
I'm sure there is someone around here who wants to agree with you fully, though not I.
I do believe that the Dunyain, i.e Kellhus, is fallible. Most notably in the PoN series. To add to Curethan's list, Kellhus nearly had his neck snapped by Cnaiur out on the beach.
I think that the Dunyain, in a mundane word without Gods or Magic, would reign supreme in all things. However there is much more at work here. There are simply too many variables to correctly guess everything. Look at Moenghus Sr. for example. He had 30 years and couldn't see past the circumfix.
Though I will say that Kellhus might have planned to lose a large part of his army. They are already starving and can't find enough food. That loss will actually allow the rest of the army to survive.
Madness:
It's somewhat ironic in that the Army of the South constituted some of Kellhus' least loyal supporters.
--- Quote from: Wilshire on November 27, 2013, 04:28:42 pm ---Look at Moenghus Sr. for example. He had 30 years and couldn't see past the circumfix.
--- End quote ---
Segue, I think you are wrong :P.
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