The Second Apocalypse

Miscellaneous Chatter => Literature => Topic started by: Wilshire on August 15, 2013, 12:46:11 pm

Title: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on August 15, 2013, 12:46:11 pm
What a great book. Really, really enjoyed it. If you are at all a fan of sci-fi and haven't read this, you should put this near the top of your "to read" list. A great story in its own right, each one of the pilligrim's stories could be its own stand alone novella, and the book is filled with allusions to other sci-fi "classics" (Dune, Neuromancer, 1984, maybe even Speaker For the Dead but thats a stretch).

Never before has a book made me laugh at loud like this one, but there were also parts that had me tearing up. This books has such a wide range of writing styles and emotion that someone with more (or any) literary schooling should be talking about it, not some poor schmuck like me.

This book has certainly made it onto my list of best books I've ever read.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on August 15, 2013, 03:02:26 pm
Lol, The Fall of Hyperion, ASAP.

Those two are basically one complete narrative.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on August 15, 2013, 03:25:09 pm
Yeah the ending forces you to get the next one.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on August 15, 2013, 04:03:31 pm
I am up for some sci-fi soon,but I am having a hard time deciding which one....
I am thinking either Enders game or Hyperion.Last sci-fi I read was "the expanse" by James S A Corey,and that was a thrilling ride :)
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on August 15, 2013, 04:09:23 pm
Both good. It seems to me that Hyperion is a 2 book commitment, and you won't get the full effect of Ender's game is you dont read the sequel Speaker For the Dead. Ender's is probably a quicker read and has more action in it, while Hyperion is different.... more intellectual maybe? Just depends on your mood I guess. If you want something faster paced go with Ender's.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on August 15, 2013, 04:37:39 pm
I still have yet to read Abbadon's Gate, Royce, but I motored through the first two. I liked them.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on August 15, 2013, 05:02:55 pm
The first book was great,but the other two didn`t quite hold up imo.
Have you read anything by Daniel Abraham? He is one of the two guys who wrote "the expanse".
I read the "long price quartet" awhile ago,and thought it was ok but rather slow and honestly quite boring.

Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on August 16, 2013, 01:02:52 pm
No - I even remember finding that out and thinking back on all the times I'd looked over Daniel Abraham on the shelves. I haven't read any of his jackets since but I remember having zero desire to read his Fantasy.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on September 10, 2013, 05:22:34 pm
I think I'll stop reading Endymion for now. It doesn't seem to have the same magic as the the first two, though it is still a good book.

There are a couple quotes in the beginning about memories/long lives that made me think of Nonmen, I'll have to go back and grab them before I put the books away (for now).
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on October 30, 2013, 08:08:34 pm
Ok I was too lazy to get something else to read so I finished Endymion and am now about 2/5's of the way through The Rise of Endymion.

I stand by what I said earlier about Endymion, its not nearly as groundbreaking or imaginative as Hyperion/The Fall. Its more your standard Space Opera. The book starts off slow, but after about half way it picks up and becomes far more interesting.

The first 1/3 of The Rise of Endymion is also rather slow, but its picking up again so hopefully it ends well. There is a reason why the church prefers their prophets dead.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Borque on November 13, 2013, 09:29:04 am
I love Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion. The other two books get progressively worse - I thought they were ok, others' opinions seem to vary between "ok" and "worthless crap". On a 1-5 scale I'd rate the four books at 5 / 4,5 / 3,5 / 3 or so.

One tangential word of warning though - if you loved the Hyperion books, you might feel a need to read Ilium and Olympos by the same author (but not set in the same universe). Do not do this. Ilium sets up things very interestingly, and has a lot of promise, but then the utter crap that is Olympos basically turns the whole duology to a steaming pile of feces.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on November 13, 2013, 05:32:20 pm
I just finished book 4. I liked it better than 3 at least. Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion were far and away the best 2. I loved the Ousters, and would probably read a book just about them. I was actually hoping that Endymion/Rise of Endymion where going to be about them. I'm not sure why Simmons went the way he did with the series, as I thought that there was plenty in the first two books to write a whole series without adding in the whole thing with the church.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Davias on November 13, 2013, 10:49:21 pm
I have read Hyperion + Fall of Hyperion and I like them. I'm not to involved in sci-fi settings, but I like Dan Simmons writing and style. The story about the time-graves and the shrike was a cool mystery and it kept me reading. But despite the enjoyable reading experience with both books I feel no real urge to read the other books in the cycle.

Regarding Dan Abraham + 1 Royce, it was a interesting setting and magic system, but the story was quite mediocre and I didn't like one character in the 4 books, except the Andat seedless and this one mercenary captain.
The main characters were too shiny and shallow in my opinion, although their actions and thinkings were written quite well by Abraham. I don't know how to say it, but the characters are somhow boring.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on November 14, 2013, 06:39:21 pm
Quote
Regarding Dan Abraham + 1 Royce, it was a interesting setting and magic system, but the story was quite mediocre and I didn't like one character in the 4 books, except the Andat seedless and this one mercenary captain.
The main characters were too shiny and shallow in my opinion, although their actions and thinkings were written quite well by Abraham. I don't know how to say it, but the characters are somhow boring.

I agree. His ongoing series "the dagger and the coin quintet" is so far(reading book 2 at the moment) much more entertaining. I have not read that much "medieval fantasy" before, so I love that kind of setting. If you have though, this might be mediocre. He has gone the GRRM school, and that shows as well.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: sologdin on November 17, 2013, 01:31:57 am
abraham is nifty insofar as it's platonist forms made manifest.  what happens when the form of the dead walks the earth?  probably sits at the same demographic fantasy table as RSB, too.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Cüréthañ on November 17, 2013, 01:33:25 am
But with more fantasy economics.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on November 17, 2013, 06:36:06 am
Quote
probably sits at the same demographic fantasy table as RSB, too.

Yes, and I had to laugh when a character called Akkabrian showed up :)
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: sologdin on November 17, 2013, 03:52:57 pm
think i saw this in a movie one time:

Quote
Akkabrian: Please, please, please listen! I've got one or two things to say.

The Holy War: Tell us! Tell us both of them!

Akkabrian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL indecipherable!

The Holy War: Yes! We're all indecipherable!

Akkabrian: You're all deceived!

The Holy War: Yes, we ARE all deceived!
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on November 17, 2013, 04:08:15 pm
Lol.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: sologdin on November 17, 2013, 04:17:43 pm
graham chapman would make a great achamian, i think, in the filmed version of RSB.  cleese as conphas?  terry jones as esmi?  palin is cnaiur, but with pontius pilate speech impediment!

too bad DCSD for chapman and robbed us of this masterwork of cinema.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on November 17, 2013, 04:34:52 pm
Yes, "life of akkaBrian" sounds like an awsome movie.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on November 17, 2013, 04:41:03 pm
I think Monty Python meets Bakker would make my head explode for wonder.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Benjamin Cain on January 26, 2014, 07:28:37 pm
I enjoyed all four books in the Hyperion-Endymion series. That was the first of a number of SF series I read, so it has a special place for me. I read on into the Endymion books because I was so intrigued by the evil AI schemes and the anti-Catholic themes.

I've read a number of SF series and here's how I'd compare them.

After Simmons (his later ones Illium and Olympos aren't as good, but if you're a sucker for SF you might check them out; mind you, his Carrion Comfort is much better), I read Peter F. Hamilton's long Reality Dysfunction series. That series has great action, more scientific jargon, and a lot of world-building. Hamilton is better at describing science and technology than is Simmons--without going full science-textbook on you, like Greg Egan.

Next, I read David Zindell's Neverness series and that has another special place for me, despite its flaws. It's a very philosophical and spiritual take on science fiction. There are some wonderful ideas and descriptions in there and if you're into spirituality without the religion, or into Eastern philosophy, you might want to check out Zindell. I didn't get all the way through his fantasy series, because it was a little too close to the Neverness story, which is what Zindell says he intended.

I also read Gene Wolfe's 12 book Sun series. What a whopping complexity that series is, but all in all I'd say reading it was worth it. Jack Vance's Dying Earth books are great as well--and much funnier than Wolfe's Sun books.

Where does Simmons's series fit into this mosaic? Simmons brings in a literary perspective--not so much in his writing style but in his allusions to other authors. This can get a little pretentious, as far as I'm concerned, but what I like most about the Hyperion Cantos is its elaborate plot and the coolness of the characters' schemes and of Simmons's religious ideas. It's not great on action or on technoscientific descriptions, and Zindell's series is much deeper with respect to the philosophy and spirituality. Wolfe's series, by contrast, has the most elaborate plot and Wolfe's writing quality is probably the best. Zindell is great too, although his failing is that he badly overuses certain cheesy words and phrases, like "light of the eyes." Also, Zindell can get a little sentimental, but he makes up for it.

I started reading Dune and Foundation, but for some reason I didn't get far. In fact, I'm having a hard time now finding a novel I can enjoy. This is why I hesitate to reread those treasured series, in case I spot more problems with them than I did on first reading (although I doubt that would be possible with respect to Wolfe).
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on January 26, 2014, 08:10:30 pm
I have actually been looking for The Broken God by Zindell, but it is not available anywhere. Not even on Amazon.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Benjamin Cain on January 26, 2014, 08:39:37 pm
Sure, it's available on Amazon. Go for a used copy for about $10 or better yet search the used bookstores on bookfinder.com. Amazon.ca and Biblio.com have it for only $6 and change, shipping included. The hardcover on Amazon.com is going for only $2.

I've bought lots of used books through Amazon and as long as you stick with stores that have lots of positive ratings, you should be fine.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on January 26, 2014, 09:00:19 pm
I read English books mostly on kindle, because the dictionary is really helpful since I am Norwegian. They have the other two books on kindle, so I have thought about buying a used copy. It can be expensive to ship it all the way to Norway, but I will look around.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Benjamin Cain on January 26, 2014, 09:10:42 pm
Ah, sorry, I assumed you were looking for an English copy. Yeah, I don't know about Norwegian translations. Try bookfinder.com, since it seems pretty thorough. The bookfinder prices include shipping and handling, which is handy.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on January 26, 2014, 09:21:57 pm
No it is depressingly little that is translated to Norwegian. Only the big hits really. That is why kindle is such a fantastic thing:) Although it is just to easy to spend all my money on books. One click, wait 5 seconds and you have it. Almost addictive:)
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on January 27, 2014, 12:38:39 am
Ben, that was a really interesting read. Thanks for that.

You probably haven't wasted much time around these parts but you ever checked out the New Wave SF (http://second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=766.0) thread?

Quote from: Benjamin Cain on January 26, 2014, 07:28:37 pm
I started reading Dune and Foundation, but for some reason I didn't get far. In fact, I'm having a hard time now finding a novel I can enjoy. This is why I hesitate to reread those treasured series, in case I spot more problems with them than I did on first reading (although I doubt that would be possible with respect to Wolfe).

It's most unfortunate. There is a serious dearth of quality SFF. At least, people like yourself, delavagus, and Bakker are writing but bar reading eachother's fiction you three are basically SOL for comparable stuff - at least in my mind.

I was reading The Quantum Thief by Hannu Rajaniemi over the holidays, which sets off some kind of space opera but I haven't finished it. It's actually fairly original but I felt very much like I was imitating the motions of my childhood reading experiences - being what they were, I don't we can expect the same head-gripping wonderment.

I really liked The Faded Sun trilogy by C. J. Cherryh.

Always loved me some Heinlein too.

If you weren't already drifting SF, I'd admonish you to write some :P.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Benjamin Cain on February 06, 2014, 02:04:31 am
Actually, I think there's something deeper going on, when I say I'm having trouble finding a novel I really enjoy. I think either I've read too much or more likely the internet has changed my reading habits and maybe even my attention span. Even more likely, I think my taste has become so narrow that I'm maybe the only one who can write what I want to see written. I'm sure this is based on my ignorance, though, since there must be books out there that cater to even the most specific tastes. But how to find them?

I think the problem is also that writers may have a harder time enjoying the process of reading, just as film directors may have a harder time watching movies, because such creators are too aware of what goes on behind the scenes, so they have a harder time falling under the spell of an artwork. Not that I'm an expert novelist--I've only written one novel and it's hardly a masterpiece (but I think it's pretty cool!). Still, I've written a lot of nonfiction now, whereas I did most of my fiction reading before I'd written much of anything outside of school. So there's this deeper issue here.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on February 06, 2014, 11:41:59 am
Quote from: Benjamin Cain on February 06, 2014, 02:04:31 am
Actually, I think there's something deeper going on, when I say I'm having trouble finding a novel I really enjoy. I think either I've read too much or more likely the internet has changed my reading habits and maybe even my attention span. Even more likely, I think my taste has become so narrow that I'm maybe the only one who can write what I want to see written. I'm sure this is based on my ignorance, though, since there must be books out there that cater to even the most specific tastes. But how to find them?

I think the problem is also that writers may have a harder time enjoying the process of reading, just as film directors may have a harder time watching movies, because such creators are too aware of what goes on behind the scenes, so they have a harder time falling under the spell of an artwork. Not that I'm an expert novelist--I've only written one novel and it's hardly a masterpiece (but I think it's pretty cool!). Still, I've written a lot of nonfiction now, whereas I did most of my fiction reading before I'd written much of anything outside of school. So there's this deeper issue here.

I do know that my fiction reading was cut down tenfold, anecdotally, since I grew up enough in the last decade to read more non-fiction.

I can't say it's the internet because changes in behavior or expression that one might observe in broad generalizations is not really present in your writing. You may write on the internet but it still reads like a philosophy tome ;).

Lol - then again I don't read your twitter, if you have one, so maybe you really do have an issue.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Benjamin Cain on February 11, 2014, 08:54:14 pm
No, I think you're right. Any negative impact of the internet on my thinking hasn't really come out in my writing. I model my non-academic writing style on that of my favourite writers, including Lewis Mumford, Ligotti, Thomas Frank, Erik Davis, Nietzsche, and so forth. I don't much like Twitter or Facebook or the other social media, precisely because the writing quality is constrained by the media.

I'd compare this problem to the one I have with movies. I love watching movies, but the more you watch the harder it is for the film-makers to impress you, because there comes a point where you've seen it all before. So it's possible to see or to read too much of a good thing, I think. In that case, you need to look around for new material and that takes some work. Now, I haven't read nearly as much fiction as I've seen movies, so I think I'm just lazy in looking for books that will appeal to me. Those books must be out there somewhere.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on February 12, 2014, 11:39:21 am
I have started on "neverness", and so far it is very interesting. So thanks for that suggestion.

Have you read any of M John Harrison?
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Madness on February 12, 2014, 11:46:55 am
Quote from: Benjamin Cain on February 11, 2014, 08:54:14 pm
I'd compare this problem to the one I have with movies. I love watching movies, but the more you watch the harder it is for the film-makers to impress you, because there comes a point where you've seen it all before. So it's possible to see or to read too much of a good thing, I think. In that case, you need to look around for new material and that takes some work. Now, I haven't read nearly as much fiction as I've seen movies, so I think I'm just lazy in looking for books that will appeal to me. Those books must be out there somewhere.

I think you're just going to have to keep writing. Hopefully, you midwife something amazing enough to impress yourself. Otherwise, start reading books again. Try everything, chuck it when you can't stand it (I've developed a keen eye over the first chapter in most books stores, so I don't waste my time or money, though sometimes my age and the author's artifact just couldn't grok each other at some points.)

You'll either find something that does what you want it to again or you won't. But your strategy now is a loss ;).
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Royce on August 04, 2014, 07:10:51 pm
Finally got around to read the first two, and what a treat that was! I have been missing out big time by ignoring these books for so long :o

I am actually afraid of continuing the series because it is supposedly goes downhill from book 3....... I certainly do not want to ruin the experience, but at the same time I have many questions that need to be answered.

So, does the rest of the series conclude and tie all the strings together or does it take a different path that is non related to the previous two books? Some folks say the former and some the latter.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on August 05, 2014, 12:18:15 pm
The AI and Ousters are explained a bit more, but the next two take place like 300+ years after the end of The Fall.
Endymion and Rise of Endymion are not as good, or as unique, as Hyperion and The Fall, but they are decent books in their own right. I would suggest to anyone that read the first two to read the last two. Nearly all of the cast of characters are new, with hints and connections to the past. They are closer to your standard sci-fi space opera than Hyperion was, with a great focus on aliens, technology, and world hopping.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Triskele on September 07, 2014, 01:41:55 am
I recently read both Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion.  I'd more or less heard that plenty of folks think you can stop there, and while I wouldn't rule out reading the next two someday, I don't feel the need to go on.

I would echo what Wilshire said about the first book.  I was pretty amazed by it at times and feel like it's one of the best books I've read in a while.  The stories of each of the pilgrims are all so well-done in their own unique way.  Man, did Martin make me laugh a few times. 

I did like Fall of Hyperion too, but it wasn't quite as fun as the first one for me. 

And then:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: SilentRoamer on September 07, 2014, 01:41:22 pm
Quote from: Triskele on September 07, 2014, 01:41:55 am
I recently read both Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion.  I'd more or less heard that plenty of folks think you can stop there, and while I wouldn't rule out reading the next two someday, I don't feel the need to go on.

I would echo what Wilshire said about the first book.  I was pretty amazed by it at times and feel like it's one of the best books I've read in a while.  The stories of each of the pilgrims are all so well-done in their own unique way.  Man, did Martin make me laugh a few times. 

I did like Fall of Hyperion too, but it wasn't quite as fun as the first one for me. 

And then:

(click to show/hide)


Hello Triskele,

(click to show/hide)

 At least that is how I understood it. Would be nice to hear other opinions - in spoiler tags of course.
Title: Re: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Post by: Wilshire on September 11, 2014, 02:28:07 pm
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