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Topics - obstinate

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It seems like the answer must be yes. Rather I should say that the Consult believes it can be. If they did not believe it could be, they would probably be working on eternal or as-long-as-possible life extension technologies and not bothering with Earwa.

This also means that Kellhus' beliefs about his fate in the outside, as observed in the Inverse Fire, might be inaccurate. It's not clear what determines whether one descends as a hunger. But I'd guess the accumulation of power and possibly arcane might are involved. Did he accumulate enough before Kelmomas, invisibly to the gods, caused his demise?

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The Unholy Consult / "If you wouldn't buy it, you should probably sell it."
« on: November 10, 2017, 04:30:08 am »
"If you wouldn't create it, you should probably destroy it."

I haven't been able to bring myself to reread TUC yet. But a thought does cross my mind from time to time as I consider the No-God, Kellhus, and Resumption.

So, in the world of Earwa, at least according to the glossary, most are damned to eternal suffering. Certainly, we are aware of only two or three who are saved, according to the Judging Eye. It may be that this is partly because we are around so many warlike men through the course of the story. For the sake of argument, though, let's assume the ratio of damned to non-damned is at least 6:4. If you, behind the veil of ignorance, had the choice to come into existence in Earwa, or not, you'd probably choose not. Simply on the basis of the likelihood of damnation, you probably wouldn't even accept 50-50, or 25-75 odds. I know I wouldn't.

To my knowledge, nowhere in the text is it hinted that Kellhus has a plan to change this state of affairs. Indeed, toward the end, he claims that he sees himself descending "as a Hunger." I know not whether this outcome was averted by his destruction at the end of the story. But even if it wasn't, there is no sign that he is going to use his status as a hunger to create better outcomes for all the poor souls who spring off the mortal coil into the Outside. I assign some probability to the idea that he has a plan for that, but not a high one.

So, I'm left with an uncomfortable realization. If the "bad" guys win, then almost everyone now alive dies, and nobody else ever gets born. But at least no more damned souls are created. Meanwhile, if the "good" guys win, the appalling status quo remains in force.

There is a saying in personal finance that mostly pertains to the buying and selling of stocks, particularly ESPP and RSU stock received from an employer. "If you wouldn't buy it, you should probably sell it." The idea is that the execution of an act and the non-execution of its negation are nearly identical in outcome. If you would do one, you should do the other (or want that it be done). If you wouldn't do one, you shouldn't do the other.

I would not create Earwa, in the form described in the novels, had I the power. It would not even tempt me. So, the question I have is, should I be happy that the enemy seems to be within striking distance of victory?

If this is already being discussed in another thread, feel free to point me that way.

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Is Kelmomas the No God because he is a twin souled sociopath? Or is he a twin souled sociopath because he is the No God? Was Nau-Cayuti the No God because of some fact of Anusumbrior genetics, or merely because Kelmomas eventually would be?

Is Kelmomas invisible to the gods because he is the No-God? Or is he the No-God because he's invisible to the gods?

Depending on the direction of the arrow of causality, it's interesting to note that Kelmomas was always doomed to become the No-God. If he is invisible to the gods because he is the No-God, then he was necessarily the No-God. If he wasn't, then the White Luck would have killed Kellhus several different times.

Is Kellhus unable to anticipate Kelmomas in the Golden Room because he's the No-God, or because it's too improbable?

I'm saddened by the way these books ended. I mean, I'm not disappointed. The ending is classic Bakker and jives very well with my expectations, which is a point I intend to make in another thread. (Only I thought that Kellhus would become the No-God. Close!) It's fitting that my most-hated character would become the engine of the Great Ordeal's destruction, and likely that of the world. But I wanted better for my sweet Drusases and Mimaras of the world.

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General Earwa / Origins of sorcery
« on: July 10, 2017, 03:57:39 pm »
The origins of sorcery are, to my knowledge, never discussed in the books. It makes me wonder.

Sorcery is not like evolved traits. Evolved traits are gained gradually. Animals did not slither, then suddenly walk. The ability to walk appeared gradually through the ages. Same with sight, scent, touch, thought, language, etc.

On the other hand, sorcery seems to be binary. You either have it, or you don't. It also doesn't seem to be a skill that can be learned free-hand. We are never told of anyone teaching themselves sorcery, and based on the comments Achmanian makes when teaching Kellhus, it seems like something that one could not accidentally stumble upon. Kellhus, for all his otherworldly brilliance, does not even attempt to derive its workings from first principles, despite quickly inferring ways to improve it once he learns the basics.

All this conspires to make me think that sorcery must not have an originator within the world. It must have been handed down from outside to the Nonmen, or perhaps the Nonmen's predecessors, if such existed. But if the gods damn humans who use sorcery, then it seems like they would have no incentive to give them the skill. Except if gods want that more should be damned, in which case of course they would give the people of Earwa sorcery.

That brings up another thought: Kellhus' last words to Saubon.

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I dearly hope not, but this thought has occurred to me a few times. It's probably already been discussed here -- if someone is aware of the thread, please point me to it.

Does Kellhus realize that he's in a book? It's occurred to me that you could read a lot of the metaphysics of Earwa in the sense of a book containing knowledge of itself as a book. For example, the fact that human feelings like suffering and other negative feelings are meat to the gods arises from the fact that we don't read books about people who are happy. In that sense, we, or rather the appetites that cause us to read the books, are the gods. Likewise, the damnation of the inhabitants of Earwa could be said to exist only because Bakker picked up his pen. The world could be closed to the outside just by finishing the story, etc.

I don't believe that this is the direction that things are headed, and I'd be gratified if Bakker had authoritatively answered that this wasn't it. But absent that, could someone point out something contradictory about this so that I can stop worrying about it?

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General Earwa / [No TUC Spoilers Please] Knowing you are damned
« on: July 10, 2017, 12:39:11 pm »
The people of the Earwa seem to have a more empirical knowledge of their religion and the non-physical aspects of their universe than we do. This manifests in a few ways:
  • Claims about the gods and their actions seem more authoritative than modern religions.
  • People who are damned believe themselves damned.
  • Someone who has the Judging Eye does not immediately seem insane to everyone else.
Is it ever discussed from where the people of Earwa gained this heightened knowledge of the non-physical aspects of their universe? Did daimotic sorcerors tell them? Is there some way to infer these principles from their physical reality? Do the gods typically intercede as often as they do in the second trilogy (i.e. is the rate of intercession lower in the first three books than in typical times)? Just curious if this is answered somewhere in the books.

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