Yeah I thought you might like that. I'd always interested in talking about dune/TSA stuff.

EkyannusIII you may be interested in this link if you havent been through it already.

http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/dune-frank-herbert-and-tsa-bakker-t1243938.html

I agree that it is possible, even likely, that there is some intervention. I just feel like some of the speculation is more of seeing what you want, rather than seeing what is there. Too much meaning gleaned from ambiguity. I still say that too much is being attributed to the gods. I could be wrong, of course, but it feels wrong somehow to ignore simple change and happenstance.

I also think that, at this point, the Gods may not be fully awakened to the plight of Kellhus and followers. To the plight of the diminished consult and their wars. I think that we see more gods in TE/WLW because the gods are paying more attention, watching more closely. They may experience time differently, buy everyone procrastinates. Maybe in TE/WLW crisis is close and Gods are getting desperate. They are awakened to the changing times, even they they perhaps always knew it was going to be there.

Or maybe they have always been more active at that time. Maybe they start their interaction farther in the future, and iterativly solve for their desired outcome based on how that intervention changed whatever final future there is. Therefore, they sequentially change the timeline from the front to the back. I don't know if that made any sense .

This is hard to me to explain, but the gods exists outside of time, but they are essentially just on their own timeline. So their actions occur outside of Earwa time, but their actions still happen in some kind of sequential order... So then 'when' becomes important, though 'when', is difficult to say since in  Earwa-time-space.


Whatever, that was a clusterfuck of thoughts. My basic point remains the same. Some stuff happening here may be gods, but not all/most of it.

Its not so much time dreams themselves but the timing. Thats what Bakker said, but I still don't know what that means.

on a slightly related but mostly tangential point:
I found, also, that the quotes before each chapter have significant meaning about what goes on in the chapter. Like the changing dreams, the quote by itself is not necessarily always important, but when you combine it with what transpires around the quote (the dream), new meanings can be discerned.

Always like to see the Old Names as they call you Three Seas folk.

Buckle up. Madness is in the process of transferring the accumulated wealth of knowledge over at the old TSA forum. Quite the treasure trove of speculation to be found. More to come I'm sure.

Well I would say that the 'individual gods' and an 'immanent god' are two entirely different things. The so-called Gods (as they are referred to every time in the appendix) are just power-hungry ciphrang, while the one god, may be something more. It is likely, in my mind, that he could end up fooling one of the hundred, but if there is a One God who has some kind of omnipotence, that would be much more difficult (and far less likely. I would say impossible).

There is nothing to say that the gods, or the god, cannot be fooled. Kellhus could have very well convinced the outside agency that he is some kind of higher divinity.