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Messages - H

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2806
General Earwa / Re: Cishaurim
« on: July 14, 2015, 12:57:30 pm »
The fact that Moe can use Water at all is also part of what makes me seriously doubt it's Divine source.  If Moe can use it, having no faith, and Titirga, who literally worships Oblivion, might even have used it, it can't actually be anything truly Divine.  Yet, I am still betting it is still linked to Divinity, literally being the 'stuff of the divine.'  We know so little of Fane's story, but we are presented with it as, he was blinded in the desert, which lead him to find the Solitary God, or, I would believe, create the Solitary God.

So, blindness gives you a better view of the Onta?  The Onta is the 'stuff of Divinity' and/or is Water?

2807
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: True Detective on HBO -- If you like Bakker, you'll probably like this.
« on: July 13, 2015, 08:15:10 pm »
I haven't seen last week's episode yet, but so far, I'd rate it as "worth watching, but by no means must see."

2808
General Misc. / Re: Mr. Robot
« on: July 13, 2015, 06:55:29 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire on July 13, 2015, 06:44:58 pm
Yup all that seems to fit the bill, which is disappointing. I'm hoping for some kind of double bluff, otherwise its too much of a "modern"/future retelling of
Quote from: Wilshire on July 13, 2015, 06:44:58 pm
Yup all that seems to fit the bill, which is disappointing. I'm hoping for some kind of double bluff, otherwise its too much of a "modern"/future retelling of fightclub.

Yeah, they have reupped for a second season already, so I guess they do have some idea of a long-game in mind.

Tyrell is definitely something of a wild-card.  I had to go look it up, he speaks Swedish to his wife and she speaks Danish to him, which explains why I couldn't pick up at all what languages they were speaking, not that I imagine it's significant.

2809
General Earwa / Re: Save Bakker's The Unholy Consult
« on: July 13, 2015, 12:50:35 pm »
Dare I say it?

Good news?

2810
General Misc. / Re: Mr. Robot
« on: July 13, 2015, 11:48:27 am »
My wife and I watched all three current episodes, some observations:

(click to show/hide)

2811
General Earwa / Re: Cishaurim
« on: July 13, 2015, 11:18:22 am »
Consider the following quotes:

Quote
If the world is a game whose rules are written by the God, and sorcerers are those who cheat and cheat, then who has written the rules of sorcery?
—ZARATHINIUS, A DEFENCE OF THE ARCANE ARTS

Quote
Every monumental work of the State is measured by cubits. Every cubit is measured by the length of the Aspect-Emperor’s arm. And the Aspect-Emperor’s arm, they say, stands beyond measure. But I say the Aspect-Emperor’s arm is measured by the length of a cubit, and that all cubits are measured by the works of the State. Not even the All stands beyond measure, for it is more than what lies within it, and “more” is a kind of measure. Even the God has His cubits.
—IMPARRHAS, PSÛKALOGUES

Quote
“Think of the way a fire will shroud the world in the course of illuminating a camp. Often the light of what we see blinds us, and we come to think there is one angle and one angle only. Though they know it not, this is why the Cishaurim blind themselves. They douse the fire of their eyes, pluck the one angle they see, to better grasp the many they recollect. They sacrifice the subtle articulations of knowledge for the inchoate profundities of intuition. They recall the tone and timbre, the passion, of the God’s voice—to near perfection—even as the meanings that make up true sorcery escape them.”

I think Kellhus might be wrong, in the sense that Cishaurim blind themselves not to see more, but to literally see less.  The world itself is vulgar in the sense and the Onta is pure, so they see only the purity of their own intention and intuition, not the contradiction between the world they know and the world they see.

This does present the idea that the Mark is self-created.  I'm unsure how to feel about that.

2812
General Earwa / Re: Cishaurim
« on: July 12, 2015, 05:06:04 pm »
Interesting idea.  I think you are on to something there.  I think all the qualities of water are sort of part-and-parcel to what the Pshuke is, a la, flowing, heavy, life-giving, etc.  All those could, at times, be applied to passion.

So, Water isn't divinely given to mortals, but in reality, it is mortals that give it to the Divine?  Fane created the Solitary God with his Water, not the reverse?

2813
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Kellhus: good or evil?
« on: July 10, 2015, 03:09:51 pm »
Quote from: profgrape on July 10, 2015, 02:55:33 pm
In practical terms, does the absence of meaning essentially make Earwa like our world?

I would think so, yes.

Quote from: Wilshire on July 10, 2015, 02:56:43 pm
Quote from: H on July 10, 2015, 02:19:46 pm
Unless he kills them all first...

Haha. "Hey Consult, I'm totally on board with your plan, except that, well, you guys are evil fucks and I'm going to have to kill you all before we have our eternal salvation party. Sorry"

Then the after series deals with what happens to Kellhus after?  I don't know, Madness told us we should be left with more questions than answers and that seems too cut and dry...

2814
General Earwa / Re: Cishaurim
« on: July 10, 2015, 03:02:52 pm »
People have been discussing this of late, so I think it is time to reboot this thread.

Let's start with the idea, is Water itself Divine?

It seems like it, since Water doesn't leave a Mark.  However, if that is true, then all Cishaurim are Divine workers.  This doesn't seem correct to me, visa vis, Moe, who despite zero spirituality, can wield the Water nearly as well as anyone.  Also, confounding this, is what is revealed in The False Sun, that Titirga basically can wield the Water, at least in some rudimentary form.  He is also with any, seemingly, Divinity or even Divine guidance.

I think the connection between Water and the Divine is the opposite?  Water isn't Divine.  Divinity flows from Water, so to speak?

I need to think more on that, I am sort of rambling now...

2815
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Kellhus: good or evil?
« on: July 10, 2015, 02:19:46 pm »
Quote from: Seökti on July 10, 2015, 12:13:20 pm
Quote from: H on June 24, 2015, 02:12:40 pm
. . .
The Consult: Destroy the world, destroy meaning.
The Mandate: Save the world and save meaning.

Therefore, how do we fit in Kellhus.  I feel like his intentions couldn't be the same as either, that is too obvious and formulaic.  So, that leaves us with: destroy the world and save meaning, or save the world, destroy meaning.  I am leaning toward the latter, which means he would actually save the Consult from damnation.

For me Kellhus represents how the absence of meaning can utilize meaning to save the world.

But a loss of meaning would mean salvation for the Consult.  Unless he kills them all first...

2816
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Kellhus: good or evil?
« on: July 10, 2015, 11:11:22 am »
Quote from: Wilshire on June 24, 2015, 06:03:13 pm
I've been here before H. Can't think of the topics right now, but I've tried to puzzle that bit out with a few people around here, but to no avail. No way to prove it either way, but I definitely think its a distinct possibility. Noteworthy, perhaps, that his oldest children are definitely old enough to have been breeding for a number of years, especially the males.

Granted, this is grasping as straws, but what if that was part of the plan all along?  The Dunyain being essentially a one shot 'weapon?'

2817
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: July 08, 2015, 04:52:01 pm »
So, I don't remember who had recomended it, but I read Light, by John M. Harrison.

It was ok, I found myself sometimes intrigued but often not really.  I feel I must have missed the point somehow.  I do recall some odd sexuality that I just could not figure out how it related to the plot in any meaningful way.

2818
General Earwa / Re: Save Bakker's The Unholy Consult
« on: July 01, 2015, 08:02:31 pm »
They also get upset about how many Bakker threads end up on the first page...we can usually get away with 2, but sometimes not...

2819
General Earwa / Re: atrithau
« on: July 01, 2015, 06:21:25 pm »
Besides my crack-pot theory, there is the pragmatic idea that Atrithau and Sakarpus were spared simply due to them just not being worth the effort.  Considering that sorcery wouldn't work in either place it would have taken more to breach the walls and level it by mundane means.

2820
General Earwa / Re: The Womb-Plague (A new theory, perhaps?)
« on: July 01, 2015, 11:04:27 am »
Well, my theory is that Wracu are essentially cyborgs (part machine, bound and controlled by flesh).  I could see the ship being the opposite, part living, but bound and controlled by mechanism.

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